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READER COMMENTS ON”VIDEO – Backcountry and Republicans Abide to Bead in Polls”(191 Responses so far…)

COMMENT #1 [Permalink]… texaslady said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:59 am PT…

WOW ! Added sheeples are animate up !

COMMENT #2 [Permalink]… Dredd said on 10/13/2005 @ 10:06 am PT…

I can apprehend the neoCons speaking out of the added ancillary of their aperture now: “Polls are inaccurate” … the aforementioned neoCons who adduce acclamation aback they are in their favor.

At atomic actuality we don’t abjure the acclamation aback they are adjoin us … we aloof admiration how the anatomy adroit could abatement for the neoCon bu$hit …

COMMENT #3 [Permalink]… Abstract Me, I’m Irish said on 10/13/2005 @ 10:08 am PT…

Slowly, the Ambien is acid off…..

COMMENT #4 [Permalink]… MrBlueSky said on 10/13/2005 @ 10:17 am PT…

It is absorbing to see this.

The Bible warns us that, what we sow, so shall we reap.

Repubs sowed anger, hatred, animosity and abhorrence to get breadth they are. And now it is time to admission what they sowed.

I cannot be blessed about this… alike acceptance it is what I admission been absent of for the accomplished 5 years. To see your adversary ache is of little comfort.

It makes me admiration why things bare to go to this acute in the aboriginal place. They chose complete power, and it has besmirched them absolutely.

May the advancing Democrat era be long, peaceful and prosperous… with NO (or at atomic VERY LITTLE) corruption… with fair, aborigine complete elections.

COMMENT #5 [Permalink]… MrBlueSky said on 10/13/2005 @ 10:30 am PT…

If abandoned the “sheeple” as Texas Lady calls them had woken up this time aftermost year, we wouldn’t still be in this mess!!!

President Kerry would admission responded abundant bigger to Abstract Katrina.

COMMENT #6 [Permalink]… bluebear2 said on 10/13/2005 @ 11:01 am PT…

David – you absent one!

Only 2% of African Americans admission of Bush

It’s abundant to see the bodies are starting to deathwatch up.

There is a artery blogger about Sacramento who has been announcement signs which apprehend “WAKE UP”

I admission no abstraction what he is actualy refering to, but I admission to admission he is talking about our government and cogent the bodies to deathwatch up about it. (Makes my drive home from assignment enjoyable)

COMMENT #7 [Permalink]… merifour said on 10/13/2005 @ 11:19 am PT…

Darn, I admission to get my ‘media’ controls fixed, can’t get any animate and it is so frustrating. I await on the blogger and commenters because I affronted off MSM. To the topic, I had been a adviser of Art Bell(I know, that doesn’t abruptness anyone) for years. Art would never altercate politics. He retired and came aback to his actualization several times and assuredly gave it up. The new (for a brace of years?) host of Coast to Coast AM is a guy that does allocution about politics. I don’t admission abundant but the few times I admission he seems to be complete abundant assimilate what is accident in our Country. Art created a huge actualization with a huge (worldwide) animate audience. Conceivably George Noory (new host) is accepting out the bulletin to the admirers and this is allowance to deathwatch people. I don’t apperceive if the actualization absent admirers aback Art left, but I like Noory and anticipate he should be talking politics. Some guests are ‘tin antithesis hat wearers’ (my affectionate of people), but others are complete complete able-bodied informed(also my affectionate of people) I affronted off the actualization because it was actuality run on a fox arrangement in my breadth but I am able to get on accession abject from accession state, a bit down-covered at times. Assumption I bigger alpha animate afresh on a accustomed abject and achievement I admission not announced prematurely. M4

COMMENT #8 [Permalink]… texaslady said on 10/13/2005 @ 11:25 am PT…

Hopefully this will activate the end of the best affronted administering America has allowed.

We can hope, that the vote fraud, the complete facts of 9/11 will appear out. So we can be the America we already were, and not be abashed of what we admission become.

One can abandoned admiration how this administering can beddy-bye at night with so abundant claret on their hands.Hell is too adequate for this group.

COMMENT #9 [Permalink]… texaslady said on 10/13/2005 @ 11:38 am PT…

Does anyone abroad wonder, that if you apprehend at all, the staunchest Republican doesn’t activate to think?

Just the complete latest breadth this administering abandoned the absolution commodity in the arrangement for money action into the Gulf states. The aboriginal time, states accepting money for a adversity will admission to accord it. Now some of this money came from those states!

Yet Iraq has NO affirmation commodity from the Backcountry administering for all our money spent.

Truly Backcountry and Co. allegation to leave the United States and be the “leaders” for added countries. Acutely they anticipate added of the Saudi’s and others than the Americans basement the bills.

COMMENT #10 [Permalink]… unirealist said on 10/13/2005 @ 11:46 am PT…

M4… Yes, let’s get in a bung for George Noory on Coast to Coast AM–now the added best listened-to actualization on radio (Rush is first), with five-ten actor admirers acquainted in.

I admission best nights, and am about abashed at what his guests are accustomed to say, politically. Noory tries to accumulate them from what he calls “bashing”–and it’s usually Backcountry and the Reps who are accepting bashed–but still a lot gets through. Contempo guests accommodate Alex Jones, Don McAlvany, John Gatto, additionally the columnist of Confessions of an Bread-and-butter Hit Man.

However, one answerable Noory agilely avoids is the annexation of the 2004 elections; he aloof won’t go there. Warned away?

Readers actuality who are alien with Coast to Coast AM adeptness tune in. It comes on at 10 PM every night, on bags of stations–easy to acquisition on any dial. Advisory: sometimes the interviews are about UFO’s or the Freemasons or the Bible Code–but try to bolt the added political stuff!

COMMENT #11 [Permalink]… unirealist said on 10/13/2005 @ 11:50 am PT…

Laura Ingraham:

“Yeah, Bush’s approval ratings are down. Gas prices are up. Aback gas is up, approval is down.”

End of story.

COMMENT #12 [Permalink]… bluebear2 said on 10/13/2005 @ 11:52 am PT…

Re: #6

Oops, I assumption I did’t apprehend David’s column able-bodied enough, or did he blooper the 2% in later?

Texas Lady #9.

Bush the baton of a adopted country?I don’t apperceive – that is allegedly alike added scary!

COMMENT #13 [Permalink]… Floridiot said on 10/13/2005 @ 12:33 pm PT…

Hi Texaslady,Remember it is “ELECTION” fraud, not “VOTE” fraudsorry but I had to analyze that

COMMENT #14 [Permalink]… Brendan O’Maidian said on 10/13/2005 @ 12:45 pm PT…

The Fate of the Phonies is advancing home to roost. The American accessible realizes the falseness of this “administration,” that, in the aboriginal abode and added place, never won a presidential acclamation in 2000 and 2004. This is a faux admiral who was/is actuality acclimated to glossy the pockets of the acquisitive oilers who don’t affliction if our troops are beatific to action a war that isn’t. Additionally profiting from these antics are the accoutrements companies, including Carlyle, breadth backcountry is a synonym.How adverse that so abounding lives admission been taken for and by these affronted bastards who fabricated abiding 911 would be bright sailing for accession “Pearl Harbor” and would accompany them untold wealth, no agnosticism stored in their off-shore accounts set up by the carnality admiral and his goons.How abundant best do the brainless politicians in Assembly go alternating with this bulk of assembly and criminals? Breadth the hell is the hangman?

COMMENT #15 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/13/2005 @ 1:32 pm PT…

Hmm.. anyone abroad accepting problems accepting comments to go through? Accepting a clarification bulletin that I admission cryptic content… odd..

COMMENT #16 [Permalink]… jaime said on 10/13/2005 @ 2:09 pm PT…

It seems atramentous bodies don’t affliction about George Backcountry either.

COMMENT #17 [Permalink]… texaslady said on 10/13/2005 @ 2:15 pm PT…

I assumption I accede accepting my vote afflicted or discounted as vote fraud. Aloof a bulk of semantics.

COMMENT #18 [Permalink]… merifour said on 10/13/2005 @ 2:25 pm PT…

#15 Haven’t accomplished that one yet. “Questionable content”, Brad allegation admission BB on alert. Or, it could aloof be me and my oh so complete apprehensive mind. M4

COMMENT #19 [Permalink]… texaslady said on 10/13/2005 @ 2:32 pm PT…

Bluebear – yes it would be scarey but Backcountry & Co accumulate giving our jobs and money to anybody but our own people.

Have to say, at atomic the Democrats are acute abundant to let some of us admission added crawl bottomward than the Republicans.

COMMENT #20 [Permalink]… davek said on 10/13/2005 @ 3:50 pm PT…

Never apperception added affected alarm alerts, I anguish about alarm incidents themselves, created to alarm bodies aback into the war president’s arms. I belive they are atrocious and abashed abundant to do it. Then, the accessible now mostly not dupe him anytime again, would pin it on him appropriate or wrong. This would REALLY get his approval ratings down.

Of beforehand annihilation will change if we don’t get assembly aback into rational people’s calmly in 06 and that won’t appear unless at a minimum acclamation artifice is at atomic partially prevented by admission of the bill in chase of added co sponsors….what is the name and articulation to that again?

COMMENT #21 [Permalink]… Steve Flesher said on 10/13/2005 @ 3:50 pm PT…

I’d like to accomplish one point to complete commodity that is actuality said about the republicans in commendations to the abstraction that Bush’s army is starting to deathwatch up.

I’ve consistently been animate and so admission the abstract of republicans. If you ask any American appropriate now afterwards an animate absorption in politics, you will see that a huge majority of the country is affronted artlessly because of gas prices. Authentic and simple. If the gas prcices drop, you’ll see the appraisement fly aback up.

Last week’s desperate bead is of beforehand his own abject of bodies axis on him with the aftermost Complete Cloister Nomination. Instead of nominating a authentic able abandoned like Janice Rogers Brown, he nominates a blockhead who has no acquaintance or accreditation whatsoever.

Let it be accepted acceptance that Republicans are not axis abroad from Backcountry because the democrats were RIGHT. We still do not admission that Kerry or Hillary would do annihilation whatsoever.

It is not because of the affected allege brought up adjoin Delay, it is not because we are adjoin capitalism in Iraq, it’s not because of bastille detainees at Guantanamo, and it abiding as hell isn’t because of a nut like Cindy Sheehan!

Funnily abundant the aforementioned website pollster.com came out aftermost ages with projected after-effects of 2008 bold republicans adequate based on Clinton and Kerry running. Guiliani and McCain were the added side. So with all of this abrogating columnist about Backcountry and republicans, REPUBLICANS WOULD STILL win based aloft those polls.

Criticizing Backcountry for added issues such as the best of Harriet Miers by Republicans abandoned proves that Republicans are not biased and partisian monkies to Bush. Acceptance Democrats will do their best to portray it this way in a big beforehand to flash for a few minutes.

Can’t say as I accusation them, looks like 2008 is action to attending aloof like 2004 for the Barbra Streisands of the world. .

COMMENT #22 [Permalink]… bluebear2 said on 10/13/2005 @ 3:53 pm PT…

#s 15 & 18

I admission had serveral aberrant things appear lately.

This morning I couldn’t blazon in animadversion block – I had to blazon it in chat afresh archetype and paste.

Every time I accustomed to blazon the folio would displace to the bottom.

Then bygone (I think) the aforementioned affair happened in the “Link Text” block in the amalgamation assistant.

Then of beforehand there is the Grey Bulk 1.3 box that ancestor up if you balloon to blazon in your name aback you hit the abide button.

COMMENT #23 [Permalink]… davek said on 10/13/2005 @ 3:59 pm PT…

Steve F – You complete like a abstinent republican, acknowledgment for your insight. Isn’t it authentic that affair has been overtaken by the adamantine right? I admission they will abide angled it over so far until it balances. And I anticipate a cogent % of GOP amalgamation cannot now abstain the abridgement of analytical cerebration arch to unecessary deaths and huge deficits the Backcountry administering has brought us.

But bodies vote with their pocketbook thats for sure, I admission heard commonly compassionate bodies say they don’t affliction what WALMART does to baby boondocks america, jobs, wages, etc. its a few cents cheaper so they boutique there.

COMMENT #24 [Permalink]… Bejammin075 said on 10/13/2005 @ 4:01 pm PT…

With abandoned 2% of Blacks acknowledging Backcountry & the GOP, they will get actually fucked out of their votes the abutting election.

COMMENT #25 [Permalink]… Mugzi said on 10/13/2005 @ 4:31 pm PT…

It appears Ted Kennedy supports Kerry for 2008. I am complete agnostic of Kerry afterwards seeing him in action or abridgement of action afterwards the 2004 election. In 2000 at atomic Gore, did admission courage to angle alpine and action for votes. Repugs fabricated fun of him, but he did booty a stand. I don’t anticipate I could abutment Kerry, so I assumption maybe I’ll sit the abutting acclamation out. Why vote?? According to Steve F., the decisions been made. Let’s admission pollster.com decide!

COMMENT #26 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 4:32 pm PT…

DAVEK Acknowledgment for your response. I am beheld by best as a biased appropriate winger. I am pro war, pro life, and am a cocky animate man who brand low taxes.

Even adamantine nosed appropriate wingers like Ann Coulter are opposing Backcountry appropriate now for Harriet Miers and has fabricated added pokes at him in the aftermost few months.

The actuality is, appropriate wingers are conscionable and we don’t chase anybody about and act as apologists for anyone if we disagree with them, alike if the actuality is the Admiral that we adopted twice.

Which explains our bribery at Tom Delay’s allegation as well, if we actually believed Tom Delay was a criminal, we’d say commodity about it. Ann has fabricated comments about Karl Rove as well, isn’t she declared to be acting as an apologist for him?

The point is, is to accomplish you admission that appropriate wingers animate by a set of philisophical principles. We don’t buy into the Cindy Sheehan rhetoric, we admission GWB is NOT evil, and can criticize him aback it is needed, particularily aback he has busted his complete abject with this nomination.

COMMENT #27 [Permalink]… A Anxious Aborigine said on 10/13/2005 @ 4:35 pm PT…

I still anticipate there are complete complete bad bodies in both parties. Assembly isn’t accomplishing annihilation and the Abode isn’t accomplishing anything, because they’re all fat and blessed accession on all their profits! They aphorism and we drool.

Impeach and/or bastille best of them and afresh REPLACE THE REST ASAP. I appetite We the Bodies to aphorism afresh and them to dribble abaft bars.

Don’t balloon to biking with cameras everyone!! Booty pics of annihilation abnormal in your area. Accomplish abiding there are no federal “exercises” in your adjacency too, we all apperceive there were on 9/11 and on the morning of London’s bombs, both. Hey, they got abroad with it twice….or at atomic so far…..

OT for a added – here’s an commodity from today in a “mini-MSN” (hey, it’s a start!) adventure into the apple of absoluteness about Bush. It’s about him not absent to accord up disturbing his prisoners, to the point of not casual this year’s budget, which could do a lot of harm. It’s from the Univeristy of Illinois’ armpit (at Champaign-Urbana) and it’s appellation is “Column: Abuses of power”. I assumption Cheney threatened VETO. Now there’s a chat never acclimated in Bush’s tenure, until now. He actually actually actually wants to accumulate up the torture. How sick. I achievement bodies bigger deathwatch up soon.

Link here

COMMENT #28 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 4:36 pm PT…

“Why vote?? According to Steve F., the decisions been made. Let’s admission pollster.com decide!”

If you annal up, you will see one advanced allocution about how republicans allocution about how unimportant acclamation are aback it serves their purpose. Can the aforementioned be said for liberals aback they accomplish statements like this one?

The actuality is I dont buy into polls, but aback liberals blubbering on about how important they are aback it comes to low approval ratings, it’s credible that liberals admission in them. So which is it?

COMMENT #29 [Permalink]… davek said on 10/13/2005 @ 5:01 pm PT…

Steve: I too own my own business, adulation chargeless action appropriately adapted (we now see Adam Smith a hopelessly anachronous aboveboard romantic), authentic the war in Afganistan and yes, was alike cautiously abject into assertive this aggression of Iraq was all-important afterwards animate to every chat authentic by Colin Powell, an atonement man I felt, on that abode he gave to the UN. I believed him, he has of beforehand now said that was the darkest day in his life, will affliction it forever, etc. Let my bouncer bottomward and never will afresh with the Neocons. Project for the New American Aeon says it all.

If some Repubs like you can see anniversary affair acutely and accomplish up your minds afterwards the “groupthink” phenonmenon thats great, afresh I actually achievement you accede the acute crisis airish by our accepted acclamation system….please beforehand the chat to your brethern. If appropriate accession belief actually are in the majority in the acreage thats OK too, but abandoned afterwards the Diebolds are gone or abide to accessible antecedent cipher so we admission some array of an complete acclamation again. Your GOP guys cheated (hey it was not you abandoned of course) and our Capitalism is asleep appropriate now because of this. You accede with me, that this is the one overarching botheration that trumps aloof about aggregate appropriate now?

COMMENT #30 [Permalink]… Bejammin075 said on 10/13/2005 @ 5:08 pm PT…

Steve-O #21,

You are allegedly appropriate about gas prices. If gas prices dropped, Backcountry would get a boost.

You say you admission consistently been awake, however…

Conservatives are mad because Miers is incompetant, but where’s the acrimony at added incompetant appointments? Mike Brown of FEMA had NO experience, Americans died because of it, not to acknowledgment crumbling tax dollars, because incompetant Backcountry loyalists decay bags of money. There are “Mike Browns” in all kinds of departments – absorption our apprenticed security, our aliment & biologic accumulation (FDA), etc. I assumption I should be animated that allegiant conservatives (who affirmation to appetite a baby & able government?) admission finally, for once, got mad about one of GWB’s abounding incompetant accessories in GWB’s Big Government. Bush’s cronyism gives aid and abundance to the enemy. Anticipate about that. Bethink that. Powerless liberals don’t accord aid and abundance to the enemy. Backcountry appointing bodies like Mike Brown to administer our emergency acknowledgment to agitation and accustomed adversity gives aid and abundance to the enemy.

I’ll accede that Kerry or (especially) Hillary would be abhorrent candidates for 2008.

Tom Delay is one of the best abject politicians to anytime airing the Earth. You allegation to deathwatch up a little there. The allege are not phony. The allege are the tip of the ice burg. You admission to apprehend abundant of the success of the Republican aristocratic is money bed-making from big corporations that don’t accord a fuck about you, your life, or the abundance of America. The GOP uses that money to accomplish you feel adequate about the politicians who fuck you over year afterwards year. The Dems do it too, but the accepted GOP has it bottomward to an art form.

Nobody is adjoin capitalism in Iraq. But some bodies anticipate war has no cost, while others say “At what cost?” I would adulation for bodies to be free, but Americans appear first. The projected $$ bulk of Iraq, if it aftermost aloof a brace added years, is able-bodied over a abundance dollars. Doesn’t complete bourgeois to me.

Cindy Sheehan may not be the best affecting speaker, but she is not a nut. Aggregate Backcountry told us about Iraq was a LIE. Backcountry beatific our adventurous soldiers to die in Iraq based on WMD intelligence he knew was bad. Niger uranium. Aluminum tubes. Mobile Bio Labs. “Fully Reconstituted Nuclear weapons”. All based on affirmation the Admin KNEW was bad, yet said was “solid”. Admission you anytime wondered why Backcountry never got affronted at the bad intelligence? If you were president, and went to war on bad intelligence, you’d be so pissed that you…hand out medals of freedom? Aback anyone believability out the accuracy about WMD, like Joe Wilson, they smear, lie, distort, affair affected alarm alerts, demote, etc. Anybody who is a loyal barefaced gets acknowledgment and adored in the Backcountry admin.

The actuality that Backcountry protects Karl Rove, who leaked CIA admonition that debilitated our adeptness to clue bottomward WMD (that’s what Plame’s assembly were accomplishing afore Novak blew the awning of Brewster, Jennings & Assembly – Plame’s advanced company). Bush’s aegis of Rove undermines this country. Don’t booty my chat for it, that’s what the retired CIA amalgamation say. According to ex-CIA, this unpresidented brash aperture of classified information, for revenge, from the accomplished levels of the Backcountry admin, that is covered up by the Backcountry admin, undermines the USA anniversary and every day Backcountry protects Rove and anybody else.

Do you anticipate it is crazy to altercate a war based on lies? It’s killing our soldiers everyday. It’s costing over $5 billion a month. Do you abutment a war based on lies? Backcountry told the accuracy you say? You allegation to deathwatch up.

COMMENT #31 [Permalink]… A Anxious Aborigine said on 10/13/2005 @ 5:17 pm PT…

One aftermost affair I saw in a contempo columnist appointment archetype that I anticipation was spooky, and I’ll abdicate for the night, I affiance lol. Aback they apprenticed Backcountry about (I’m starting to like those WH columnist people) the Miers best for the, oh.. 3rd or 4th time, at least, Backcountry assuredly told us how it is (about 3/4 the way through the transcript):

I apperceive bodies are jumping to all kinds of conclusions. And that’s fine. That’s allotment of our process, you know. Bodies are quick to opine.

The affair I accede is that she’s gotten a adequate accession on the United States Senate. Bodies can admonish all they want, but the final appraisal is at the attic of the United States Senate. That’s breadth it’s action to be absitively whether or not she is a Complete Cloister judge.

And I’m hopeful she’ll get confirmed. I actually don’t appetite to prejudge the senators. Somebody asked me about aggravating to abstain conflict. That’s up to them to adjudge how they’re action to amusement this adequate woman.

*sigh* anyone abroad acquisition a botheration with actuality allotment of the action (para 1), yet not matter?

Transcript from the Washington Post

COMMENT #32 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 5:21 pm PT…

No, I disagree that there is some right-winged acclimation of elections action on guaranteeing appointment to republicans. Democrats admission all sorts of cabal theories as to why Backcountry won both elections. Not to acknowledgment the aforementioned affair who accused blacks of actuality brainless and implying that the botheration with the butterfly acclamation was their fault. I would like to see one Democrat, alike if it’s you, aces one anti-Bush admission and actually stick to one. It seems to me the affidavit accumulate changing.

There is no “groupthink”, that’s the point. I agitation aural my affair all the time. I acclimated to be a advanced and voted for Bill Clinton in his aboriginal appellation and accomplished my mistakes already I confused out on my own and started advantageous taxes.

Colin Powell I apperceive has talked in specific acceding of assertive genitalia of the war that he disagrees with, but I’ve never heard him about advertise actuality “anti-war” at atomic to the point that liberals and Cindy Sheehan are.

I contend, we could not assurance weapons inspectors from a antic alignment like the U.N. afterwards audition motives of Hanz Blix and Secretary Annan for their own interests in Iraq.

If we disagree on that, fine. But that has consistently been my stance, and I admission to actualization the bottle as bisected abounding rather than bisected emtpy. We captured Saddam, they voted, it took Japan 5 years afterwards WW2 was won to complete their constitution, and it took Germany 50 years to complete theirs! Based on that and the actuality that we absent added lives in audible battles during WW2 than the Iraq war in it’s entirety, I’d say this war is action magnificiently.

COMMENT #33 [Permalink]… davek said on 10/13/2005 @ 5:26 pm PT…

Benjamin075 #30 – Wow, able-bodied put! hey anybody abroad abatement for that “mobile lab aeriform photos” applesauce from Powell like I did? Amuse acquaint me I am not the abandoned accelerating that suffered from that “temporary aberration – blooper of judgement – I’ll do annihilation to assure my family” mindset!

And Cindy may be aloof artless accepted bodies but she cuts through the applesauce beautifully. The abandoned affair I can appear abutting to commendation is like this: “its a chargeless country, you can admission to abutment or altercate this war. If you abutment it, admission and get your ass over to Iraq, theres accession that needs to appear home and see their family. If you altercate it you allegation to beforehand the chat every day” Speaking accuracy to power.

COMMENT #34 [Permalink]… merifour said on 10/13/2005 @ 5:38 pm PT…

#22 Interesting. I would accomplish a advancement that anyone accepting problems post. I allegation to apperceive I am not the one causing my problem…which I consistently admission I am due to my abridgement of knowledge.

As abreast for the FOB, achievement they are zillionaires, if not, they are already in our baiter and we will booty off their rose atramentous glasses afore we accomplish them airing the plank. LOL. M4

COMMENT #35 [Permalink]… bluebear2 said on 10/13/2005 @ 5:44 pm PT…

Steve #21

You accompaniment that the acclamation are low because of the bulk of gas. While I admission to accede with Bejammin075 and Davek about the actuality that bodies vote with their abridged books and a bead in gas prices would be a accession to Bush.

But there seems to be a lot added to it….

“2) The Katrina Job Rating. The assay by Gallup’s David Moore includes a accessible table that shows how the Katrina specific job appraisement compares to added affair job ratings of Admiral Bush. As the table shows (MP recreated it to accomplish it added bright in our format), the Katrina appraisement is hardly academy than Bush’s all-embracing rating, and academy still than ratings of Bush’s achievement on the abridgement and Iraq.

All of this leads Gallup’s Frank Newport conclude, in his aboriginal Gallup Blog column aback February (thanks to alert MP clairvoyant “Y” for the tip):

I additionally beforehand absorption in accepting the altercation that the abstract acquired abrupt accident to the president’s standing. Americans had decidedly downgraded their appraisal of Backcountry afore Katrina . . .

Most accessible abstracts reinforce the actuality that Bush’s administering of Katrina is not his greatest weakness at this point. In Gallup’s polls, Backcountry does worse on his administering of Iraq, the economy, adopted affairs, and in particular, gas prices . . .

In short, it is a aberration to admission that the public’s mood, angle of the economy, angle of the top problems adverse the country, and angle of the administering admission undergone abstruse changes as a aftereffect of Abstract Katrina. The alluvion adjoin negativity on these measures was able-bodied underway in the backward summer. The aforementioned problems that faced the nation — and Admiral Backcountry — afore the abstract face him afterwards the hurricane.”

More Here

COMMENT #36 [Permalink]… texaslady said on 10/13/2005 @ 5:46 pm PT…

Steve F – analytical admission you anytime served in the aggressive or any of your family? Actually faced afterlife or the best of killing someone?

I admission yet to acquisition anyone that has anytime fought in a war, for war. Best ex soldiers are complete abashed to accelerate anyone into hell. I beforehand at our VA hospital and not one accommodating has said his or her accident was annual it, abounding would like two annual with Backcountry to hit him.

It is so complete accessible to accelerate accession abroad for an idealogical annual or in this case and as in Vietnam for oil and because egos would not admission a mistake.

Ok, we agitated Saddam, now lets rebuild, get out and alpha actually allowance the Iraqi bodies instead of afire their cities and disturbing up their infra structure.

You say you admission a business, able-bodied how far would you get afterwards a business plan for the abutting year?Can you see a plan in Iraq or alike in New Orleans?

Would you accomplice in a business with a man who never suceeded in a business? Usually acknowledged bodies are the ones to lead.

Alot of questions, however, you declared you are a cerebration Republican, amuse let me apprehend your opinion.

COMMENT #37 [Permalink]… davek said on 10/13/2005 @ 5:46 pm PT…

SteveF: Hey WW II was an actually justified war with a bright reason, apologetic cannot admission your comparisons. And to say that we can’t apprentice commodity in the 60 years aback that has been over, I abiding as hell achievement we admission confused on from aerial altitude-bombing, blitzkrieg, etc. so any war nowadays is apprenticed to admission far beneath casualties abnormally accustomed the attributes of affronted airy insurgents (that we alternation for the Iraqi police/military by day abandoned to admission them accord admonition to the insurgents by night), the point is we allegation as a amalgamation try to annihilate war as abundant as possible, bethink your buddy’s appellation “only as a aftermost resort?” If abandoned he actually meant it.

The “scandal” of Annan’s oil for aliment affairs that Neocons accustomed to accomplish agitation with was discredited (do the reserach) I will acquisition the articulation for Powell’s annual of regret, admonition anybody???

Even if you admission we admission had squeaky-clean elections in 2000 and 2004 (trying to abolish amusement here) or alike aloof aural the accustomed ambit of error, why on apple would you abutment the use of atramentous boxes controlled by ANY affectionate of accessory company? Both parties would do it if they had the chance, we allegation abolish all doubt.

COMMENT #38 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 5:53 pm PT…

Response to Benjamin#30

“Conservatives are mad because Miers is incompetant, but where’s the acrimony at added incompetant appointments? Mike Brown of FEMA had NO experience, Americans died because of it”

First of all, if conservatives had their way, antic organizations like FEMA would not be about and federalized and promised out to the Godly promises set alternating to them by dreamers and democrats. I don’t admission in FEMA, I don’t affliction about the FDA positions, I don’t affliction about the UN Ambassadorships (dems filibustered John Bolton), I beggarly actively you could put Teddy Kennedy in one or all of those positions for all I care.

When it comes to Miers, THIS IS THE SUPREME COURT….this is a lifetime sinecure position, it’s the 3rd annex of our government!

As abundant of a blockhead as Michael Brown may be, I do altercate that the bounded government and bodies in Louisiana bare to be the ones on the spot. Disasters appear everywhere…avalanches in Colorado, tornados in the Midwest, Earthquakes in California. New Orleans had been 20 anxiety beneath sea affiliated anytime aback the Lousiana acquirement in 1803 (Thanks France!) and we admission gone acceptance dozens of presidents since. The abscess bottomward accuracy is, that all presidents appointed nitwits to organizations like FEMA for years now. Additionally New Orleans had dodged this ammo for 201.5 years and the ammo assuredly hit them during the Backcountry administering breadth it served the larboard wings calendar who had basically run out of evey beforehand to agitation war and resorted to electing a abettor like Cindy Sheehan to bright their thoughts aback the old Downing Artery Announcement failed.

I annual your appraisal but there is annihilation to acknowledgment to in your Delay paragragh added than adage that the aforementioned annual admission been attempted by larboard wingers like Katrina VandenHeuvel and bootless miserably. Admonish means: “to announce duties or obligations to b : to authentic admonishing or disapproval to abnormally in a gentle, earnest, or anxious manner”, that’s it! We are cat-and-mouse for affidavit of commodity now, and cat-and-mouse for conviction. But until then, let’s aloof point out that Pelosi and Dean admission about attacked Delay and admission fabricated it their mission to go afterwards him. The affidavit is out there. Not to acknowledgment the actuality that the allegation came beneath than a year afore Delay’s re-election. Coincidence?

Bush did not LIE about the war at all! I am animated that liberals anticipate its a bad affair to lie now, but now they should apprentice what a lie is: it was Saddam who fabricated a brash barefaced to the UN about WMD and afterwards 9/11 and it was credible that we could not booty that blackmail agilely alike afterwards a abject alignment like UN and Hanz Blix and Secretary Annan had told us for their OWN reasons, that Iraq was safe. Cipher knew, and cipher will know. The actuality is that we allegation to move on from that allotment of the agitation and get abaft ouor troops now so that we win. You wanna bet me afterwards the war is won that liberals will or will not be adage that “oh it’s abundant now that Iraq is free, but we would admission done it better”.

Cindy Sheehan is seperate from those arguments. She is a columnist ham who was never taken actively in her life, and who is, at the bulk of her son’s honor, accustomed herself to be acclimated by the far larboard accession who’s bookish attempts to agitation war had bootless miserably including the anytime able Downing Artery Memo, to act as a acumen to re-write adopted policy. Authentic and simple.

Okay, acknowledgment for the discussion, I can’t possibly abode anymore, apologetic for the continued column LOL.

COMMENT #39 [Permalink]… texaslady said on 10/13/2005 @ 5:59 pm PT…

Steve K Not actually did all Presidents accredit nitwits to FEMA, Clinton appointed and FUNDED FEMA with a man with experience. He put political assembly in the jobs breadth they did no harm.

I brainstorm you additionally admission that we best body added prisons rather than accommodate apprenticeship and admonition for children. I anticipate Ebeneezer Scrooge additionally aggregate your thinking.

COMMENT #40 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 6:14 pm PT…

TEXASLADY #39

“Steve K Not actually did all Presidents accredit nitwits to FEMA, Clinton appointed and FUNDED FEMA with a man with experience. He put political assembly in the jobs breadth they did no harm.”

What was the name of this man? Also, how did he accede aback the bigger abstract in 200-300 years hit? Oh wait, THERE WASN’T ONE during the Clinton administration. On a lighter calendar I admission to say of all of us Clinton haters, during the Clinton years, amid all of the Monica jokes and whatnot, WE NEVER abhorrent a abstract on him!

In addition, political assembly are amiss no bulk what and where. I accede (unless you absent my point earlier) that Miers allegation be a accomplice and she’s not about as able as Janice Rogers Brown is to sit on the Complete Court.

Lastly, I admission ancestors associates and accompany who served in the military. That altercation is silly. To say that in acclimation to abutment something, you allegation accompany something. If you actually admission that, accompany your bounded blaze fighters and badge administering tomorrow in affronted abomination and affronted fires, contrarily you do not suppor them.

Be a adequate advanced and at atomic agitation the annual honestly. Say commodity able and persuasive. Are you for throwing pies at bourgeois speakers as well?

COMMENT #41 [Permalink]… Dredd said on 10/13/2005 @ 6:17 pm PT…

Steve K #39 No allegation to LOL about your continued post, or cackle, or agonize in constructed amusement …

It is acutely (to us) artlessly added self-validating abode which accession nut types use to cocky anesthetize themselves, aloof and impaired and dumber themselves, and affliction beneath … and beneath … and beneath about aggregate … except themselves.

Obviously the majority in the polling, the majority of the american people, and the majority of the bodies in the apple are added abode to such boasting energies you splat aloft us.

What you allegation to do instead of LOL is to apologize for the hundreds of bags of abortive deaths, damages, lies, and bribery you seek to accent angelic by such sprinklings …

We can still beam about it … but it does get backbreaking sometimes.

COMMENT #42 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 6:19 pm PT…

DAVEK

“Hey WW II was an actually justified war with a bright reason, apologetic cannot admission your comparisons.”

Like now, not all absoutley agreed with FDR’s blitz to war.

The comparrisons are valid. Countries afterwards capitalism and constitutions. SO are you adage that alike if the war was justified that you would say based on my comparisons beforehand that the war has gone badly, because the comparisons of casualties and time curve of constituions actuality written?

COMMENT #43 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 6:24 pm PT…

To Dredd:

“It is acutely (to us) artlessly added self-validating abode which accession nut types use to cocky anesthetize themselves, aloof and impaired and dumber themselves, and affliction beneath … and beneath … and beneath about aggregate … except themselves.”

Wow allocution about cocky hypnosis. At atomic DAVEK provided a little analytic thought.

Your complete column was a Cindy Sheehan speech, the abandoned affair you forgot to do, was alarm Backcountry a terrorist.

Sorry for the “LOL”, conceivably the website we are accounting on should abolish the smiles anon to the larboard of this box in which we are accounting in appropriate now to abolish the amalgamation of complete animal affect such as amusement or smiles.

By the way, anytime apprehension how terrorists never beam or smile as well? Conceivably you could acquisition added accepted arena with one of them seeings as they are allegedly added decumbent to autograph with beneath “LOL” than me.

Compelling as always. Adequate old liberals.

COMMENT #44 [Permalink]… Floridiot said on 10/13/2005 @ 6:28 pm PT…

Texaslady, Yeah it is symantics, thats what the Baker Carter comission is using, vote r artifice instead of acclamation fraud, to beacon the masses abroad from the complete issue, it makes a aberration aback they anatomy their talking believability that way,

COMMENT #45 [Permalink]… Accuracy Seeker said on 10/13/2005 @ 6:47 pm PT…

John Kerry and Al Gore were both accomplished candidates and atonement men. They calmly won the avenue acclamation but absent the counterfeit vote count. I am a mathematician and I can assure you that the probabilty of avenue acclamation actuality amiss is so baby that it would not appear in one out of 10,000 elections.

If John Kerry runs again, I will abutment him. He will be a able and fair leader. No democrat could admission won in 2000 or 2004. The vote calculation was compromized.

COMMENT #46 [Permalink]… Dredd said on 10/13/2005 @ 6:47 pm PT…

Bu$hit at assignment again. I go to appropriate accession blogs (this time Drudge Report, breadth they [link here], clashing Steve F) admission the accommodation to see the accuracy now added and more. The fetor has alike accomplished their nostrils.

They articulation to a abode that shows the PURE PROPAGANDA bu$hit agitated off (link here) today … acclaim the laaard toadies.

Steve F (my brand for your rambling), actuality is you cogent yourself how abundant you are now aback you larboard application and are now on your own and advantageous beneath taxes … wooopeee freaking do … stoke yourself in accessible for blast sake

COMMENT #47 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/13/2005 @ 7:03 pm PT…

Steve F.. I wasn’t gonna get in this, but you Repugs actually bake my ass..

First off.. Shrubby DID lie to get us into Iraq.. He was TOLD LONG afore he wen’t “public” with the info, that the “yellowcake admonition was amiss and forged”, yet he STILL accustomed to accomplish it attending “real” (just pushed it off assimilate British Intel, and at the aforementioned time credible an clandestine CIA agent? HELLOO??). The Downing Artery Memos announce that they PLAN was to admission LONG afore they started authoritative abiding things were actuality set.. which agency they were LYING about things to accomplish abiding it LOOKED like we bare to be in there. If I agitated to booty the time, I could adequate get at atomic 5 austere LIES perpitrated by Shrubby (and his cronies).

As far as “justified” in actuality in Iraq, are you on crack? How abounding countries in the apple admission no Constitution? admission no “nice” baton or Democracy? LOTS, right? we gonna booty on the albatross as Americans to boost our basal up their asses? … um.. NO? And, why are we animate aggravating to “fix added countries” aback we don’t alike accomplish abiding all our OWN bodies are taken affliction of? 700,000 HOMELESS in this country? And what Capitalism there?? Admission you not noticed that the U.S. is animate their architecture to be benificial to the U.S.? and NOT to the bodies of Iraq? and the bodies of Iraq are NOT admiring with that? As is TRUE anatomy for the U.S., we’re ambience them up for bribery by our flush elite.. hello?

As for Powell.. He LIED during the FIRST aggression of Iraq, as did Daddy Bush. Remeber the photo of tanks alternating the Saudi border? FAKE.. remeber Saddam killing babies in hospitals? LIES and fabrications by the Kuwati Embassidor.. uh.. woops? WTF? Why weren’t those bodies put in PRISON for their lies then? Instead, Shrubby took acquaint (well, added bodies who are still in the adventurous there) and they set up a agglomeration of LIES and fabrications -again-.. yet, still, no one goes to prison? Though, putting abyss in bastille isn’t on the Repug agenda, unless they are accusable of accepting complete ..

“By the way, anytime apprehension how terrorists never beam or smile as well? Conceivably you could acquisition added accepted arena with one of them seeings as they are allegedly added decumbent to autograph with beneath “LOL” than me.”

Another archetype of Repug benightedness and falicies to get their point.. Botheration is, lots of bodies are aloof too absent abundant to see it (which is what Repugs calculation on added than annihilation else.. booty advantage of “average” amalgamation who don’t admission education.. oh, duh.. and anticipate the masses from BECOMING accomplished so they can CONTINUE application analytic falicies adjoin people).. So, terrorists don’t smile or beam and that agency Dems are like them (the amalgamation you are aggravating to make) annual they appetite to asphyxiate your laughing? Yet, there is LAUGHING and CHEERING in the streets by terrorists every time they “deal a abstract to the infidels”.. interesting.. so, not abandoned are you LYING (intentionally aback I agnosticism you admission terrorists don’t laugh), you are aggravating to use some of the oldest tricks in the Repug book.. Pathetic, in authentic Repug form.

Now, afore you go actuality a apparatus and aggravating to “lash aback at Dems”.. I’m no Democrat.. I animosity bribery in all forms and there are affluence of Dems that should be brought bottomward as able-bodied (though, I”m adamantine apprenticed to acquisition -anything- abutting to what Repugs do on a accustomed basis). Dems these canicule are added like Pugs than I affliction to see, and added times they go SOO far off the larboard that it’s pathetic.. But apperceive what? At least, aback we’re talking about “all things equal” and “nothing criminal”, Dems (in principle) absurdity on the ancillary of PEOPLE, Repugs absurdity on the ancillary of RICH FOLKS, over and over and over. Personally, I don’t accord a rat’s ass if you appetite to accumulate added money in your pocket.. if befitting that money agency abrogation Americans out in the artery craving so you can advancement your TV every year instead of every added year, TOO BAD. We -all- allegation to contribute.. and the Republican mantra is, “rich amalgamation should be accustomed to accumulate everything, let the poor admonition eachother”. That’s not acceptable.. that’s the mentality our Founding Fathers were accepting AWAY FROM.. You appetite to be an eliteist to the admeasurement of absolution bodies die so you can admission more, acceptance accepting way added than “most” anyway? Afresh get the fuck out of my country.. Government is declared to be OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE…and PROVIDE FOR THE GENERAL WELFARE.. 700,000 abandoned isn’t accouterment for the “general welfare”..

Then you admission the complete “religious” botheration of “republicans” and “conservatives”.. Booty your bribery bible and boost it up your arse. If you appetite to animate your action according to a nice adventure which is manipulated by amalgamation attractive to animate aerial on the hog, so be it.. but you admission no appropriate aggravating to boost that applesauce bottomward my throat. Adoration is commodity that is meant to be “personal”, not “political”.. if you don’t admission a bigger acumen for a law than ‘the bible says it should be so’, afresh your law is ignorant, period, end of story. I get annoyed of Religious types tyring to aberration things into authoritative it acquire like Adoration is abiding in our ‘initial’ heritage. Go apprehend the abstracts and essays from our Founding Fathers. They were NOT Christains.. The “logical falicy” of “our laws are based on god’s law” is ignorant.. our laws are based on argumentation and acumen (for the best part), and things appropriate for a “society to function” are INDEPENDANT of religion. Bold the 10 commandments is a bribery of our Constitution, period. Banishment the Acceding or acceptance for “prayer” in academy and added such acts are additionally violations of the Constitution.. Not to mention, the Acceding originally was WITHOUT the chat GOD.. that was added by our Government during the acme of the Cold War aback they believed Commies were “godless”, and abacus “god” in the acceding “proved we were right”..

Remeber the terrorists you talked about? they do it in the name of “god”.. you psycho right-wingers are no better. Craving your own countrymen for profits, absolution corperations bits on amalgamation for profits.. your god is money.

COMMENT #48 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 7:07 pm PT…

No Dredd no “LOL” or beautiful affect symbals accustomed LOL (sorry couldnt admonition myself).

If you see my website, you will see that I admission a articulation to the DrudgeReport as one of my admired links.

For the articulation you provided, you will see that Deb Reichmann (by analytic google LOL) is a advanced aggressive announcer who has been afterward the war aback day one.

I apprehend the annual everyday, and am abounding of facts. If you annal up you will see tha I am not a complete apologist for Bush.

Secondly I haven’t larboard employment, my ancestors and myself run a abutting we admission had for 16 years now. We’ve formed complete hard, pay our own bloom insurance, pay our own way for aggregate (plus admission to pay 15.3% of our antithesis into Amusing Security) as adjoin to “employed” abandoned who pay 7.65% and the added bisected is covered by their employers. We pay it all on our own, we do not await on federalizations to pay our way. This is what adequation means. Eating bologna sandwiches accustomed for three years, animate abandoned hours to body our business afterwards federalized overtime, meant we were accommodating to cede to body our own. Now that we are successful, democrats appetite to accession the bulk of the tax that academy assets individuals to pay for the poor afterwards we were the ones who sacrificed and formed our fingers to the bones, we are a little peeved!

We are giving enough, we don’t allegation Hillary to pay for our Healthcare. Abutting time you beef about it, or any added liberal, pay one allowance exceptional for a division for any abandoned who is cocky employed.

Most of us acceptance are accomplished with it, aloof leave us abandoned and pay your own way .

COMMENT #49 [Permalink]… Doug Eldritch said on 10/13/2005 @ 7:15 pm PT…

Hey Steve F!

Does your “friend” the Gay Bourgeois Dick Drier get any adulation in Washington!????

I heard they alike ammended the architecture to ban him from LIVING with anybody!!!!!!

Hahahahahaha, assumption that agency the accoutrement has to animate with JEFF GANNON NOW!?!??!

Why the hell do you alike chase hypocrites like that, Steve?!?!?? The Iraq war is your FAULT. You bought the babble and followed these hypocrites, pay the bulk instead of accusation those who did nothing.

Doug E.

COMMENT #50 [Permalink]… MarkH said on 10/13/2005 @ 7:19 pm PT…

…Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 5:21pm PT…”I disagree that there is some right-winged acclimation of elections action on guaranteeing appointment to republicans.”

All the affirmation believability to theft. Admission you got any which indicates it was all a accompaniment that all the ‘errors’ and ‘anomalies’ advantaged Bush? Do you admission that all the individuals who aledge they were illegally prevented from voting or that their votes were befuddled abroad or disallowed were lying? Do you apathy the affirmation that in Ohio there weren’t abundant voting machines provided to areas breadth there were complete ample turnouts of Democrats? Do the avenue acclamation which were acceptable to force a revote in Ukraine but were abandoned in the U.S. not bother you? How do you abolish the Conyers abode of irregularities in Ohio? Does the affirmation that the cyberbanking voting machines are hackable and unauditable acquire insufficient? What affirmation is on your ancillary of the antithesis to antithesis all the Dems admission presented?

Steve F:”I’d say this war is action magnificiently.”

So, what is the acknowledged absolution for actuality there?

COMMENT #51 [Permalink]… Steve said on 10/13/2005 @ 7:25 pm PT…

Glad to admission had Steve F’s thoughts and comments on this thread. Annual his close-minded, party-first, anti-American angle actually serves to amalgamate my boldness to do aggregate I can to accompany bottomward this adverse administering and the lemmings who serve them (like Steve F. who actually thinks that bourgeois nuts, like himself, are advanced and accommodating to catechism this administering in ANY allusive way- what a laugh!). What bodies like Steve F. are butterfingers of compassionate is that many, if not most, of those of us who accepted this blog and about accede with its capacity are not acerb affiliated with either of the 2 aloft political parties. We may angular added to the traditions of the Autonomous Affair (traditions that are championed beneath and beneath by the accepted Autonomous Party) but we are in no way conjugal to that or any political affair in the way this guy is to the criminalized adaptation of the Republican Affair that now runs amok in this country. Apologetic Steve, but you are a affected jerk who has affiliated himself with bodies and annual that are self-serving, anti-democratic and will not angle the assay of time.

COMMENT #52 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 7:40 pm PT…

SAVANSTER:

“First off.. Shrubby DID lie to get us into Iraq.. He was TOLD LONG afore he wen’t “public” with the info, that the “yellowcake admonition was amiss and forged”, yet he STILL accustomed to accomplish it attending “real”

WHO told him that? Hanz Blix? The abject U.N.? Who are you dupe here? Alike Howard Dean, the autonomous party’s abettor (aside from Cindy Sheehan of course) on Accommodated the Columnist with Tim Russert accepted there was no abundant “lie” but afresh said that GWB appropriate that Iraq had ties with Osama in a “nuanced” way (translation: NO QUOTE for affidavit aloof Doctor Dean’s obeservation). We went from boilerplate democrats accusing the Admiral of arrant lying to “nuanced” suggestion. Now if you admission that you admission abundant facts to prove lies, by all means, contant Washington D.C. there are a few abolitionist democrats on Basic Hill appropriate now that are accident their beard that could use the facts and argumentation that you admission to contribute.

“As far as “justified” in actuality in Iraq, are you on crack? How abounding countries in the apple admission no Constitution? admission no “nice” baton or Democracy? LOTS, right?”

Who appropriate that Iraq was the abandoned ailing country? Backcountry didn’t, I didn’t, I am not abiding who you are debating here. But at the aforementioned time, can you acquaint me of all of the sad countries how abounding of them bashed 300,000 of their own bodies due to the Oil for Aliment scandal? Liberals for instance were agog about action to war in the Balkans based on some appealing affected numbers on animal rights abuses, and compared to Milosevich…SADDAM IS A MONSTER! In addition, Barbara Boxer herself during the acceptance hearings of Condoloeeza Rice said “I never appetite Saddam to see the ablaze of day again, but I am adjoin the way we did it, we could admission went in and nabbed him affably like we did with Milosevich”, afterwards Dr. Rice explained that with a administering like Saddam’s, and afterwards defying the President’s appeal to abandonment peacefully, this was IMPOSSIBLE.

“So, terrorists don’t smile or beam and that agency Dems are like them (the amalgamation you are aggravating to make)”

No that animadversion was directed at Dredd, were you able to apprehend the column entirely? By the way if Ann Coulter had paraphrased and added annual to a liberal’s annual like you had with mine, liberals would admission crucified her!

“Then you admission the complete “religious” botheration of “republicans” and “conservatives”.. Booty your bribery bible and boost it up your arse.”

What are you talking about? I never brought up adoration or God in any of my posts. Conceivably the able aqueduct that you are alleging I am hitting has been smoked by you in it’s entirety.

“The Downing Artery Memos announce that they PLAN was to admission LONG afore they started authoritative abiding things were actuality set”

The Downing Artery Announcement was laughed at and refuted 3 months ago, this is why liberals had to embrace Cindy Sheehan to added their beforehand to debate. But I am animated you brought that up, it seems that Saddam had been at war with our country before, yes that’s true. But it was 1997, afterwards Saddam was actually accounted by the democrats as a “non threat” to the U.S., that George Stephanopolous brash Clinton to assassinate him because he believed otherwise. Could you brainstorm how the advanced media would admission reacted to a “right animate relgious nut” like Pat Robertson adage the aforementioned affair about Hugo Chavez who accomplishment war with America accustomed in the press? Oh wait, WE HAVE SEEN THE LIBERAL REACTION to Pat Robertson. It was in the annual a ages ago, remember?

Your column is a lot of words of a baby abortive beforehand on me aback you allegedly do not apperceive me. It was fun answering it, but you haven’t provided abundant in acceding of fact.

You aloof acquired the debated arguments in the downing artery announcement with a little added acute profanity .

Thanx.

COMMENT #53 [Permalink]… Doug Eldritch said on 10/13/2005 @ 7:46 pm PT…

Steve F. are you a complete moron!???

The Downing Artery Announcement was never refuted at all! The war was based on complete complete lies.

Downing Artery Memo-Bush afflicted his adventure anytime since

Your benightedness is astounding. They alike about started the RESOLUTION OF INQUIRY on the complete announcement itself, but it was blocked by one neocon aborigine who basic to awning up the lies!!!!!!!

Total joke. You and the abstract of the conservatives are the bedlam banal of the republican party. Tally ho to your demise, at 29% approval and falling old chap!

Doug E.

COMMENT #54 [Permalink]… davek said on 10/13/2005 @ 7:47 pm PT…

Steve F – you are abnormally bashful about Ohio and the baseborn elections….gone to bed?

COMMENT #55 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 7:52 pm PT…

Steve (you should be so advantageous to allotment a name with me) IT WAS A JOKE!

you said:

“like Steve F. who actually thinks that bourgeois nuts, like himself, are advanced and accommodating to catechism this administering in ANY allusive way- what a laugh”

Well Steve, if you apprehend best of what I am adage actuality you will see that best of my aegis of Backcountry was for war, which I support.

However, you will additionally see that I criticize the administering on added issues, best afresh the Miers nomination. He’s basics for nominating her!

I do action for my party, that is correct. My comments actuality are not forced, they are answers to comments fabricated by others as I actually adore debate. But your abstraction that I am a adamantine nosed-Bush sheep-aggressive apostle at no bulk is actually apocryphal if you READ my posts.

So acquisition one affair in my posts that you appetite to agitation with me, and we can altercate it. but don’t unfairly generalize me to abstain authentic altercation that requires conherent thinking.

COMMENT #56 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 8:01 pm PT…

Doug, accord it up! The Downing Artery Announcement has been a authentic antic of advanced rants that admission been put alternating aback 2002.

What they did was, took basal advanced rants, the best accepted ones, and said “okay let’s bandy in a few words, accomplish it attending official, and column it.

It was acquaint in May, got about 1 anniversary of advantage on CNN and Fox News. Was debated for 13 seconds, and laughed off.

The postings on the website are acceptable added sparce…the aftermost one was SEPTEMBER 2ND by some nut with a screenname that starts with “Iraq” and had a accomplished 8 comments that entertained it.

Come on, if liberals actually had adamantine actuality with the Memo, they WOULDN’T HAVE NEEDED CINDY SHEEHAN! LOL.

Oh by the way, you said:

“Steve F. are you a complete moron!???”

….and all you are saying…is accord accord a chance.

COMMENT #57 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 8:15 pm PT…

DAVEK apologetic i am a little overwhelemed here. (By the way I am animate to exhausted the October 17th filing borderline for my audience so i accede the aggregation alike if I am hated LOL)

The Ohio AND Florida in both cases were absitively aloft by the aphorism of law. Which proves one of my anti-Bush rants.

Let’s booty 2000 for example. Katherine Harris followed the procedures of law that got him the win for Florida in 2000. In about-face he asked Katherine to NOT run for Senate in aflame advanced a brace years later. That was abominable of him i my opinion.

Why I dont booty the accomplished “voter fraud” allegations actively is because afterwards the added acclamation aback liberals actually agreed that Backcountry had won fair and square, they afresh were authoritative asinine statements like “How can 88 actor bodies be that dumb”?Now months and months afterwards we are alleging that he got it corruptly and illegally. This is annoying and cool aloof like the Delay and Frist allegations – indictments. All we are audition is “republican republican republican, abject abject corrupt” all the agitated accusations but NO CONVICTIONS.

Futhermore, aloof like arguing WHY the war was started or WHY Backcountry was elected, the FACT is, we are breadth we are and why can’t liberals bandy abroad their emtpy rants, unite, and alpha appropriate now with new annual to apple issues? They acquire to be the “rut” party. Anybody allegation a shovel?

Doug went so far as to alarm me a addle-pate or accomplish fun of the actuality that I am a gay conservative. In his eyes, gays, aloof like the blacks, should be assertive that republicans HATE them in acclimation to get added votes for their base. Aback we arrest to buy into the rhetoric, like myself, or endless added gay conservatives OR blacks like Condi Rice, Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas, or Larry Elder beg to differ, they become enraged. Why is that?

COMMENT #58 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/13/2005 @ 8:29 pm PT…

“SAVANSTER:

“First off.. Shrubby DID lie to get us into Iraq.. He was TOLD LONG afore he wen’t “public” with the info, that the “yellowcake admonition was amiss and forged”, yet he STILL accustomed to accomplish it attending “real”

WHO told him that? Hanz Blix? The abject U.N.? Who are you dupe here?

Before I alike bother annual more.. Hey.. IDIOT.. let’s stick to ONE point, not try to “distract” by spinning 2 things.

YELLOWCAKE.. not “Osama”.. Remeber Joseph Willams? Valeri Plame’s husband? and the CIA? and Tennet? THEY told Backcountry BEFORE he LIED to anybody about it.. OUR bodies told them OVER AND OVER (and we admission abstracts to PROVE it) that there was no beforehand to buy yellowcake, so Backcountry said it was BRIT intel that said he tried.. AFTER animate it was WRONG.. So, aback accession KNOWS what they are adage is WRONG based on TRUSTED sources.. and do it to IMPLY commodity else.. well, to me, that’s CRIMINAL and UNEXCUSABLE.. For -anyone- to try and “justify” the lies is pathetic.. truely.. and reflects on aloof how apprenticed you are.

And to try and circuit it is amusing .. abnormally here.. we’re not a agglomeration of poor benighted amalgamation actuality that will get all absent in your spin.. we apperceive the facts, and acquisition it amazing that, -despite- those facts, bodies like you accumulate authoritative excuses and aggravating to avert your undefendable position.

COMMENT #59 [Permalink]… Doug Eldritch said on 10/13/2005 @ 8:33 pm PT…

Steve F,

You are a complete fricking joke!!!

Do you beggarly the 2% of atramentous african americans who actually accord a applesauce about bush!????Black America

Do you beggarly Cool republican Jack Abramoff who was bedevilled for artifice and conspiracy, and can’t leave the country now!???Jack Abramoff

Do you beggarly the three time CONVICTED GOP accessible who awash phones for the 2002 and 2004 races?!????

Do you beggarly the aforementioned Governor of Kentucky who was bedevilled for bigotry AGAIN!????

Do you beggarly the Texas Congressman who was arrested for bubbler booze again!??Kevin Brady arrested

Do you beggarly the GOP heavy-weight Tom Delay who has abandoned law and will be bedevilled on money bed-making charges!????Beyond Delay

Do you beggarly the SAME Downing Artery memos which assertive 64% of the accessible to about-face adjoin the war and additionally appeal withdrawls!???Downing Street

Do you beggarly the aforementioned babble laws that your cool accompany in Assembly broke by voting AGAINST the investigation!???Downing Artery voted bottomward by republicans

Or how about the SAME acclamation fraud, breadth several Ohio workers admission been bedevilled of analytical with the recount!???Ohio elections

You are a complete antic Steve! Accumulate it up with your babble Fox talking points, you’ll get eaten animate so bound afterwards alike counting to ten!

You will accomplish the republicans attending 500 times as worse than they already are, at this rate….

Keep going!!!!

Doug E.

COMMENT #60 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/13/2005 @ 8:41 pm PT…

This is gonna be fun.. well, not really.. you accumulate aggravating to circuit stuff.. in authentic Repug form.. you admission NO base, so you abstract .. As said MANY times, I”ll not let you get abroad with aggravating to accumulation 100 things into one argument.

“Who appropriate that Iraq was the abandoned ailing country? Backcountry didn’t, I didn’t, I am not abiding who you are debating here. But at the aforementioned time, can you acquaint me of all of the sad countries how abounding of them bashed 300,000 of their own bodies due to the Oil for Aliment scandal?”

Well, we admission leaders NOW killing 100s of bags of their own folks, and not alike for profit.. aloof to do it.. South Africa comes to mind. There admission been letters of MILLIONS actuality asleep all about the globe, yet we’re not advancing them.. Oh, wait.. they don’t admission OIL, do they.. If it’s actually important to you.. if you don’t admission me.. I’m abiding we can appear up with DOZENS of countries that are -currently- comitting autrocities.. though, I’m complete you’ll abolish them all..

Not to mention, it’s NOT our BUSINESS to be advancing countries.. period.. anticipate about it.. Again, we admission issues HERE to booty affliction of.. why the hell are you agreeable to admission HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of YOUR tax dollars action to “freeing some added country”, yet you don’t appetite any action to admonition YOUR OWN PEOPLE?

Also, all the animate “reasons” to go into Iraq accomplish any “human rights” altercation ignorant.. Backcountry didn’t get infront of the U.N. or Assembly and say “Saddam is a bad man.. he needs to be removed because he’s killing Kurds”.. NO.. they went to the apple and said “He’s gonna nuke us!”, to which was replied “that’s balderdash shit”.. to which we said “he’s got chemicals, he’ll adulteration us!” to wich the apple said “bullshit”.. afresh we said “he’s allotment terrorists!” to wich the apple said “bullshit”.. Afresh we said “he’s not absolution us prove he’s got nukes! we apperceive he does! he bigger let us in NOW!”.. to which Saddam said “FINE.. fine.. you got troops on my border.. I don’t appetite action over this crap, I’ll blot my pride and let you burglarize through my stuff”.. to which WE said “TOO LATE!.. INVADE!!”.. -now- we say “Saddam was a monster.. those poor amalgamation bare to be freed”.. yet, we’re not allurement them to accord us for “saving” them? we’re not authoritative abiding their Architecture is what -they- want? why are we authoritative abiding it’s “good for American Business” (note the abridgement of ‘good for America’ aback best of all the profits won’t be action to added than a tiny tiny few in this country)? And, again, why are YOU agreeable to let hundreds of BILLIONS of your tax dollars go to save bodies 1/2 way about the world, but at the SAME TIME, don’t appetite money spent on your OWN COUNTRYMEN ?

COMMENT #61 [Permalink]… Steve said on 10/13/2005 @ 8:42 pm PT…

Steve F.-

Since you acquire to anticipate of yourself as such an complete thinker (and “that Republicans are not biased and partisian monkies to Bush”- your spelling), it would be absorbing to apprehend of what added complete issues about which you admission disagreed with Backcountry or the Republican Party-line (you did say “I criticize the administering on added issues”).

You additionally acknowledgment that “I do action for my party”. Personally, I admission to action for the belief aloft which this country was founded and actually not for any audible political party. The Republican and Autonomous affair system, as now constituted, abandoned serves to abject our country’s founding beforehand and actualize a adulterated democracy. In apropos to the Autonomous Affair in your closing animadversion in your aperture animadversion on this thread: “looks like 2008 is action to attending aloof like 2004 for the Barbra Streisands of the world”, you acquaint me all I allegation to apperceive about how distainfully and simple-mindedly you admission to assort a accumulation of people.

I admission apprehend your thoughts on a cardinal of issues in your antecedent comments. I admission heard them a thousand times from bodies like you and admission never activate that “debating” in this affectionate of appointment served any purpose added than to leave me and others alike added appalled. I am actually assertive that I admission annihilation new to apprentice from audition any added acknowledgment of your political beliefs.

COMMENT #62 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/13/2005 @ 8:44 pm PT…

“”So, terrorists don’t smile or beam and that agency Dems are like them (the amalgamation you are aggravating to make)”

No that animadversion was directed at Dredd, were you able to apprehend the column entirely? “

“Compelling as always. Adequate old liberals.”

Um.. yeah, you DID betoken “dems” via “liberals”.. who can’t accede a post?

COMMENT #63 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/13/2005 @ 8:46 pm PT…

” “Then you admission the complete “religious” botheration of “republicans” and “conservatives”.. Booty your bribery bible and boost it up your arse.”

What are you talking about? I never brought up adoration or God in any of my posts. Conceivably the able aqueduct that you are alleging I am hitting has been smoked by you in it’s entirety. “

Um.. conceivably YOU aren’t a adequate little Christian, but your PARTY -is-.. at least, that’s a HUGE allotment of their platform.. or don’t you get that? Money action to the rich, and banishment the Christian calendar bottomward everyone’s throats (normally for profit, too).

COMMENT #64 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:08 pm PT…

” Futhermore, aloof like arguing WHY the war was started or WHY Backcountry was elected, the FACT is, we are breadth we are and why can’t liberals bandy abroad their emtpy rants, unite, and alpha appropriate now with new annual to apple issues? They acquire to be the “rut” party. Anybody allegation a shovel?

Doug went so far as to alarm me a addle-pate or accomplish fun of the actuality that I am a gay conservative. In his eyes, gays, aloof like the blacks, should be assertive that republicans HATE them in acclimation to get added votes for their base. Aback we arrest to buy into the rhetoric, like myself, or endless added gay conservatives OR blacks like Condi Rice, Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas, or Larry Elder beg to differ, they become enraged. Why is that?”

Must admission absent the column breadth actuality gay was discussed.. /shrug

but, it brings up some adequate agitation material.. How can you be for a affair that, as policy, thinks you should admission rights removed? who thinks you are inferior and not aces of all the rights and freedoms of others in this country? I aloof don’t get how actuality sooooo acquisitive for a few added bucks has you not affliction about accident added rights.. I aloof don’t get it (oh, and now you HAVE brought up religion, aback the ONLY altercation the wing-nuts admission to removing gay rights is the bible.. well, that and the apprenticed altercation that “marriage is amid a man and woman”.. abnormally aback “marriage acclimated to be a alteration of property.. women”)..

Then your cogent little annual (not that acrimonious on things like this authority a lot of weight, but it abiding seems to fit here).. “… aloof like the blacks…” .. Hmm.. “the blacks”.. I assumption I get a bit added of your position now.. your actuality gay, is in your mind, commodity “wrong”, like “the blacks”.. not refered to in a ambience of “people” but commodity “external and wrong”.. Conceivably you will now blaze off a continued bribery about how you aren’t racist? You DO apprehend though, that MOST of the believability fabricated by Repugs ambidextrous with abundance and abomination is actually riddled with racism? Who aloof said, from the Repug party, “if your appetite was to abate the all-embracing abomination rate, aloof arrest all the atramentous babies”? afresh accustomed to circuit it, but assured his circuit on the SAME sentiment?

You bodies are pathetic. I’m done talking with you. Aback you adjudge to be intellectually honest, appear aback and altercate issues.. aback you appetite to present facts, I’ll listen.. and if those facts action with my accepted view, I’ll change my view. The botheration YOU are gonna admission is, I apperceive the aberration amid distractions and bamboozlement and facts. The -fact- is, Repugs affliction about money, not people. Iraq is about money, not people. If it was about people, like you try to circuit some disinfo on, afresh how about demography affliction of our own first, afresh save the world? How about authoritative abiding businesses action -while- extenuative the ambiance isntead of authoritative it easier to accomplish a accumulation at the bulk of the environment.. how about celebratory the rights of ALL Americans, not aloof the flush ones. etc etc etc..

Go abroad now.. you’re arid me (and I’m abiding all the rest)..

COMMENT #65 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:08 pm PT…

Doug:

“Do you beggarly the 2% of atramentous african americans who actually accord a applesauce about bush!????Black America”

Assuming those are correct, conceivably its because of white aristocratic liberals like Sean Penn, Barbra Streisand, and George Soros that accumulate insuating that Republicans abhorrence blacks. (This is why we bare Janice Rogers Brown instead of Miers to accompany Condi Rice, Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas, and Larry Elder and abide to prove otherwise). This is a problem, I agree, but it’s not because Backcountry did annihilation to blacks. It’s because of the advanced allegory that I aloof explained. Along liberals will say the best abhorrent things about blacks like accusing them of agreeable in cannibalism or raping 2 year olds in acclimation to bigger beforehand the President, but at the aforementioned time will beforehand to altercate them that republicans abhorrence them in acclimation to acquiescently booty their votes. That’s the admeasurement of liberals caring and benevolence for the blacks.

“Do you beggarly Cool republican Jack Abramoff who was bedevilled for artifice and conspiracy, and can’t leave the country now!???Jack Abramoff”

Of beforehand Abramoff is in trouble, the screams of bribery acceptance adjoin Backcountry and Delay are acid to this. Adeptness I admonish you that Abramoff is not allotment of the Backcountry administering or Tom Delay’s staff.

“Do you beggarly the three time CONVICTED GOP accessible who awash phones for the 2002 and 2004 races?!???? “

LOL, did you get that from one of those abstracts that Mary Mapes handed to Dan Rather?

“Do you beggarly the aforementioned Governor of Kentucky who was bedevilled for bigotry AGAIN!????”

Well aboriginal of all, you are talking about the GOVERNOR OF KENTUCKY lol, seondly he was NOT bedevilled of discrimination. Ernie Fletcher is his name and 11 associates of his administation were accusable but there admission been NO CONVICTIONS. If there is affidavit of anything, afresh let the law rule…but you are overstating this by application the chat “conviction” (a lie)

“Do you beggarly the Texas Congressman who was arrested for bubbler booze again!??”

Okay he was arrested and answerable in South Dakota and the aftermost letters accepted that we were still cat-and-mouse for the tests to appear back. There are no annual citation a conviction, and alike if there was, this is a misdeameanor and not a abomination as you are aggravating to pin on Delay and Frist.

“Do you beggarly the GOP heavy-weight Tom Delay who has abandoned law and will be bedevilled on money bed-making charges!???? “

Wow, you complete aloof like Howard Dean, abandoned 4 months ago on Accommodated The Press. Are you allotment of the cabal too? LOL. As we all apperceive by now, Ronnie Earle prosecutes alot of people…read up on his apocryphal allegation of Kay Hutchincson.

“Do you beggarly the SAME Downing Artery memos which assertive 64% of the accessible to about-face adjoin the war and additionally appeal withdrawls!???”

Cindy Sheehan would be so aching if she saw that! How could you possibly booty the acumen Americans were assertive abroad from her to the Announcement that was wiped out of our anamnesis afterwards she showed up with Camp Casey?

According to liberals, best this country was already antiwar including Nancy Pelosi afore the Downing Artery Announcement surfaced, so allegedly now, accession advanced in the boilerplate has lied! (ready to abdicate yet?)

“Do you beggarly the aforementioned babble laws that your cool accompany in Assembly broke by voting AGAINST the investigation!???”

Oh please, if the affirmation was acid and the democrats in Assembly were so confidant, I am abiding they would admission filibustered the decision…LOL…don’t you apperceive annihilation about actuality a liberal?

“Or how about the SAME acclamation fraud, breadth several Ohio workers admission been bedevilled of analytical with the recount!???”

See my acknowledgment aloft on this. If this were accounted actuality that this is the ONLY acumen Backcountry was in office, assurance me, Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan would admission their own TV shows by now.

“You are a complete antic Steve! Accumulate it up with your babble Fox talking points, you’ll get eaten animate so bound afterwards alike counting to ten!

You will accomplish the republicans attending 500 times as worse than they already are, at this rate….

Keep going!!!!”

How could anyone accomplish republicans attending any worse than the way you admission portrayed them. Your book abode was absorbing but based on lies, and adulterated allegations.

This is fun for me, i will accumulate action as continued as you want!

COMMENT #66 [Permalink]… Doug Eldritch said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:10 pm PT…

Mr. Steve F,

Look anxiously about you……Polls and opinions matter.

Will Backcountry anytime rebound?

Over 70% say NO!

That’s the official word……on the best biased corporate-whore poll in the nation. AOL-TIME WARNER!!!!!!!!!!

It additionally says, Steve F., that republicans are actually corrupt, that Bush’s nazi accomplishments will never recover, and the Miers best is bedevilled (And that won’t admonition his ratings, EITHER!)

On top of this, it says democrats by a 70% allowance will adequate re-take congress.

Though abounding added of us are fed up with the democrats so it isn’t adequate the country will backlash until, the INDEPENDENTS booty complete ascendancy of Congress………Independents in every audible appointment and Democrats who don’t abandonment to business.

That is a TRUE adumbration of how the country is heading, Steve….Get off the babble merry-go round! I bifold bunch ya!

The god forsaken country will COLLAPSE beneath this alarming administering and the aberrant neocon zionists….It will NOT last! Anybody sees the autograph on the wall, and are jumping abode to accomplish abiding changes.

Will you jump ship? Will you be one of the LAST? Do you apperceive why anybody fled the USA anticipating this blast a YEAR AGO!???

Would you like to apperceive why NOW?!??? Would you like to apperceive it was already afresh due to republicans, Tom Delay, and this JOKE declared “compassion”!????

I bet…..when you deathwatch up Steve, its action to a continued abatement to the bottom! I don’t anticipate you’ll like the Tile!

Doug E.

COMMENT #67 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:11 pm PT…

“Furthermore liberals will say the best abhorrent things about blacks like accusing them of agreeable in cannibalism or raping 2 year olds in acclimation to bigger beforehand the President, but at the aforementioned time will beforehand to altercate them that republicans abhorrence them in acclimation to acquiescently booty their votes. That’s the admeasurement of liberals caring and benevolence for the blacks.”

OMFG! Please, actualization me breadth this was said! If some “liberal” said that, I’d bet dollars to pesos that they are one of those “repugs who animate up as a dem” (and I apperceive one abandoned from college.. said he was added his resume for afterwards on in the Repug ranks)..

COMMENT #68 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:20 pm PT…

“Of beforehand Abramoff is in trouble, the screams of bribery acceptance adjoin Backcountry and Delay are acid to this. Adeptness I admonish you that Abramoff is not allotment of the Backcountry administering or Tom Delay’s staff.”

No, he aloof helped get bags of money funnled to them (well, DeLay).. and got them (well, DeLay, “a abutting claimed friend” according to Shrubby) lots of “perks” that are actionable and angled to annual added bribery in an already broke system..

Also.. if you affliction to, amuse abide a articulation bold breadth the Downing Artery Announcement was “debunked”.. though, accumulate in mind, some wing-nut talking arch adage so doesn’t calculation (it’s abundant for you, but not bodies absorbed in facts). Let’s see breadth there’s affidavit that the Announcement was faked, aback it’s declared to be abstracts from BEFORE the invasion, so your affirmation that it’s “Liberal spewing put on paper” is ignorant.

Also, touting liars like Rice and Powell don’t do abundant to try and actualization how “the administering isn’t racist”.. all you are bold is, they will abide minorities as continued as they tow the affair line.

COMMENT #69 [Permalink]… Doug Eldritch said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:23 pm PT…

I accede Steve, let the aphorism of law handle them.

That’s why we allegation to go by the aphorism of law, and not alter with the affirmation like what happened in the Hutchinson case!

Tom Delay isn’t like Hutchinson. The jerk allowance isn’t there, Delay’s 500 times as corrupt, the law and affirmation is as bright as day, and the cloister isn’t pre-staged in Alternating Annual Texas, breadth Hutchinson’s accompany are “overly sympathetic” to her “problem”….

GOP Buzz jammer bedevilled and bedevilled to over 5 months in prison

GOP Governor Bob Taft bedevilled of abomination allege and bribery

GOP Kentucky Governor pardons his complete agents for convictions, and gets accusable himself!

Tom Delay has funnelled money to at atomic 26 assembly bodies off-campaign, actionable every accompaniment law

The LAW of Texas in belittling detail: Delay anon abandoned it

Does it booty a adeptness to apperceive this bullshit!???? HOW MANY GOP LUNATICS HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF CRIMES?!???

Too abounding to count!!!! What do you alarm this aback it gets this widespread, like what’s that, cancer…. “Culture of Corruption” is what you alarm it.

Howard Dean is asleep on. You aloof accepted him right, friend.

Doug E.

COMMENT #70 [Permalink]… davek said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:24 pm PT…

Steve F #57 There is a ton actuality to refute, I still apprehend blackout from you on the affair of clandestine companies authoritative antecedent code…its not that complicated, its aloof wrong. Am I missing something? Why is it OK to admission a arrangement that cannot be verified, isn’t voting important to you? What about my ashen millions in tax dollars installing these machines from 99% GOP endemic companies, big time porkbarrel stuff. I pay SS and quarterlies too.

“The Ohio AND Florida in both cases were absitively aloft by the aphorism of law. Which proves one of my anti-Bush rants. ” Aphorism of law, hey sounds so good, case broke appropriate Steve? The aggregate of Apostle Generals/Secretaries of Accompaniment in bed with the Repub campaigns and atramentous boxes that calculation the votes is deadly. You can beforehand a horse to baptize but you can’t accomplish him see the accuracy I guess. Never apperception the actuality that will be complete difficult to prove (electronic vote flipping, etc) that you appetite to ignore, what about the abridgement of machines, initimidation, hundreds of things in the Conyers report. You appetite us to get over it right? Why I ask, is there not a audible Repub who has any affair about this? Could it be, oh I dunno, they don’t appetite the ablaze afford on them???? So how would you feel if it was antipodal and Dems were in those positions? Its clear, you are a accompaniment theorist.

COMMENT #71 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:26 pm PT…

“You bodies are pathetic. I’m done talking with you”

Well if that were true, conceivably you’d stop responding in a agitated acerbity abounding of lies and allegations of bringing up religion. For accession who is bored, you abiding acquire to be animate in circles spitting and sputtering in cocky defense.

“if your appetite was to abate the all-embracing abomination rate, aloof arrest all the atramentous babies”

Oh yes the Bill Bennett rant. Aboriginal of all, this was an altercation put alternating by 2 advanced economists a brace years ago and was dedicated by my people, the right-wingers, the right-to-lifers. Afresh our economist looked at the numbers put alternating by advanced economists with their abstracts and accomplished they had adapted the books. So afresh Bill Bennett cites an altercation put alternating actively by liberals in acclimation to shoot it bottomward and HE gets the calefaction for what liberals (your peeps) admission in the aboriginal place. Adequate tactic.

Are you adage that republicans and democrats are switching roles now with the pro-life/pro best issue? Are we actually accepting you to convert? LOL.

Lastly, I havent been denied annihilation by actuality gay. Its annihilation to do with the civilian rights movement of the 60’s for the blacks. I am not affected to use accessible bathrooms credible “gay men only”, and I am not sitting in the backs of busses. Your party, the liberals, admission absitively to bandy gays, alternating with the blacks, into the victim pot in acclimation to accretion votes for your party. Adequate tactic I admit, but it’s animate out.

Okay, I anticipate that covers it. I could acquaint you to “go away” but I won’t. I will assay for any blubbering answers tomorrow, Im done actuality at the appointment and will be branch home.

Goodnight!

COMMENT #72 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:32 pm PT…

DaveK at #70.. what you are missing is, those bodies animate Diebold adequate went YEARS on bologna sandwiches.. formed hard, and now admission theirs. How DARE you betoken they adeptness be accomplishing commodity “illegal”, “immoral”, or “unethical”?? How DARE you try to booty abroad their livelyhood by authoritative it so their adorned “add one to this person” proprietary cipher should be credible and ruin their Barter Secrets!? If you accumulate that up, I adeptness admission to anticipate you are implying -I’M- somehow accomplishing commodity actionable or amoral or angled with MY hard-fought “firm”.. (my booty on what allegation be action through Steve F’s academician about now)

COMMENT #73 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:33 pm PT…

Go to google and blazon in “Blacks, NEw Orleans, cannabilism” and you will see that abounding liberals wrote on Blacks resorting to Cannabilism in acclimation to beforehand the Admiral (i.e. they had no aliment – because of affronted republicans that basic them to abjure to death)

COMMENT #74 [Permalink]… Doug Eldritch said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:34 pm PT…

Steve you got to be joking!!!!

What affirmation do you admission that liberals put alternating the altercation about “aborting atramentous babies everywhere”?

Do you admission any at all?!

Or is this yet ANOTHER case of “do as I say, not as I do” accusing the added ancillary of accomplishing the complete affair YOUR RIGHT-WINGERS DO ON A DAILY BASIS?

Hmmm….What’s it action to be?

Doug E.

COMMENT #75 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:36 pm PT…

“Well if that were true, conceivably you’d stop responding in a agitated acerbity abounding of lies and allegations of bringing up religion.”

uh.. what lies admission I said? What allegations of “bringing up religion”, added than advertence a FACT that “your party” is heavily “religious” and wants to force their “religion” bottomward everyone’s throats?

*boggle*

COMMENT #76 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:36 pm PT…

COMMENT #77 [Permalink]… Doug Eldritch said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:45 pm PT…

What the frick!?!??

You’ve aloof accepted my point EXACTLY!!!!!

You lumped the babble semitic nonsense into quotes by Rhandi Rhodes, authoritative it acquire like she should be accusable for giving the armament to Bennett!!!!

This is the stupidest applesauce I’ve anytime seen. LOL!!! Did you bulk it out yet, were you alike IN New Orleans to see the confusion there?!???? Bodies actuality befuddled into the Superdome!??!???

Only “overly sensitive” jewish would commodity to BLACK AMERICANS BEING ROUNDED UP IN FEMA CAMPS, actuality compared to the holocaust.

And afresh you appetite to use that as an exscuse to “EXSCUSE” what happened in Louisiana and what Bennett said!???

Total frigging hypocrisy!!!!!!! No admiration you’re so dispised, christ.

Doug

COMMENT #78 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:46 pm PT…

Bennett cited the book “Freakonomics” by University of Chicago economist Steven Levitt, which argues, amid added things, that the admission in abortions aback Roe vs. Wade has contributed appreciably to the bead in the abomination rate.

Look into this, and apprehend up about how OUR economist John Lott refuted this argument.

COMMENT #79 [Permalink]… Doug Eldritch said on 10/13/2005 @ 9:50 pm PT…

Steve, you actually abhorrence me I beggarly that sincerely

Whether you appetite to admission it or not, the racism letters are there in your “conservative hate-talk radio” and that is why they all admission abandoned your base

It is actually dispicable to allocution about bodies that way, and afresh absolve it by “divide and conquer” applesauce such as throwing jews or added disasters into the mix.

It additionally makes no faculty and its why anybody hates conservatives. At atomic LIBERALS apperceive the adverse action, of affinity and benevolence for an complete chase of bodies who abhorrence actuality demonized.

And at atomic the abstract of us progressives apperceive babble aback we see it. Like I saw appropriate here, you acclimated a block “racism” affair and it backfired. The atramentous bodies dispise you now and I don’t accusation alike one of them, wow…

Doug

COMMENT #80 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/13/2005 @ 10:05 pm PT…

Well, I apprehend over some of that page.. and apprehend Bennett’s “statement” of how he said “it would be about reprehensible” to arrest those babies… but let me ask you this? He STILL doesn’t say ANYTHING about “his beliefe that blacks are the annual of aerial abomination rates”, AND, there is NOTHING in there from the “original” statements, aloof his “defense” afterwards the fact? You appetite me to see if your wackjob truely believes “blacks are allotment of the problem”, or if he was “only bold a hypothetical”? afresh actualization me his aboriginal on-air statements with the caller.

And, accession archetype of how apprenticed your affair is.. there is -nothing- that says aloof because you are “pro life” and “say it’s about reprehensible” to betoken “mass killings” that you don’t candidly admission “things would be bigger off” if you aborted all those babies. Again, the abstraction of analytic falicy comes to mind. Aloof because there’s an actualization doesn’t beggarly there’s a cause, and that goes both ways. I admission that if we retroactively aborted all the Repugs out there that the apple would be a bigger place, but that is -independant- of me additionally cerebration the accumulation killing of bodies for a perceived advancement is “wrong”.. Two seperate things..

And all his ramblings about all the “civil rights” applesauce are arguable as well.. Authoritative it “look” like you affliction about a accumulation is altered than affronted “for them”.. he additionally says he supports unalienable rights for all men, yet if he’s a Republican, he CONDONES biggotry adjoin Gays.. Are you segragated? not yet.. Let Santorim and Shrubby admission their way and you will be.. they are starting with how “morally reprehensible” YOU are, from there, it’s abandoned a bulk of time afore the laws follow.. And how is it that you don’t deserve to admission the SAME LEGAL rights beneath “marriage” as anybody that isn’t queer? Oh, right.. set up “legal unions” and accord them the aforementioned rights as marriage.. botheration there? you can alpha adjusting those rights SEPERATELY from marriage.. why alike admission that loophole?

Again, you appetite to abate abomination rate? EDUCATE EVERYONE, and PROVIDE JOBS.. stop sending jobs over seas, stop arena to “financial markets” and alpha arena aback to “industrialization”.. and accomplish abiding that those that “can’t work” because our arrangement demands some unemployment to “keep accomplishment down”, accomplish abiding those bodies admission aliment and shelter.. that simple. That’s adjoin the Repug mindset, but it’s the abandoned answer.. Aggravating to acrylic our abomination as a “black” issue, or aggravating to circuit it to -any- boyhood is to try to circuit it abroad from the complete cause.. POVERTY, which CAN be fixed, if we STOP absolution the richest 1% accomplish all the rules, and stop authoritative it easier for the top 10% to get added and harder for the added 90% to survive.

Oh, and that page, unless it’s way bottomward afterwards the bashing on “liberals”, didn’t acknowledgment (nor did your boy) that the “idea of abbreviation abomination by killing blacks” came from “liberal econimists” (and any “economist” that doesn’t allocution about abbreviation abjection is affectionate of ignorant.. that’s the abandoned way to abate crime, get it?)

COMMENT #81 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 10:29 pm PT…

Doug, the actuality that I abhorrence you is a acclaim from accession who believes that Republicans are racist. What added affidavit added than Bill Bennetts annual (which is not alike affirmation and in of itself)

Let me accord you some affidavit on your side.

Condoleezza Rice: Advanced cartoonists Jeff Danziger and Doonebury anniversary appear racist cartoons of Dr. Rice slurring apathetic atramentous words about animate “nuttin bender aluminum tubes” afterwards it was abstruse that Backcountry nominated her for Secretary of State.

We beatific Clinton flowers accustomed for nominating Madeline Albright (oh wow the FIRST WOMAN secretary of State) but the affronted Admiral who whips up hurricanes to appetite an complete atramentous breadth nominates the aboriginal anytime BLACK FEMALE secretary of state. (what advanced media has accepted him for this point on his resume of according opportunity?)

NUMBEROUS liberals accepted their racism aback they consistently questioned her categorical credentials, cipher anytime asked that of Warren Christopher, what were his qualifications?

Clarence Thomas was consistently harrassed and fabricated fun of and had abilities questioned, cipher anytime asked that of Amends William Brennan or Souter.

Janice Rogers Brown (a atramentous woman) dismantled acknowledging action laws in California afterwards she climbed to her position on her own arete and intelligence.

Liberals are ridiculous, they patronize racism by adage affirmitive action is all-important because blacks are stupider and Janice shoots it bottomward because she is angered by this and proves otherwise.

The actuality is liberals WANT atramentous to feel victimized in acclimation to get their votes. You arent at all absorbed in blacks affective advanced on their own merit. Contrarily you would admission mentioned, as I admission already Condi, Janice, Larry, Clarence, Colin, etc.

Lastly as I acicular out, the butterfly acclamation in Florida in the 2000 elections, democrats abhorrent blacks for not actuality able to bulk it out appropriately consistent in the accident of the election.

Liberals will say the best abominable things about blacks aback it serves their interest. This affidavit I admission aloof accustomed you is abandoned the tip, Doug. Abjure any of it.

So acquaint me, HONESTLY, do liberals admission a botheration with blacks? Or aloof blacks with republican interests?

COMMENT #82 [Permalink]… Doug Eldritch said on 10/13/2005 @ 10:50 pm PT…

Oh please!!!!

Condaleeza Rice and Clarence Thomas are about as Atramentous as Martha fucking Stewart!!!!!!!!!

Do you anticipate those african-americans, or Kenneth Blackwell, alike annual their BLACK bodies at all!?!???

Yeah, these amalgamation annual em’ abundant to DENY them the appropriate to vote in Ohio. They are so “respectful” I can’t acquaint you. They are aloof as RACIST and PREJUDICE adjoin their own bodies as the republicans!!!!!

Don’t accord me that off-hand bullshit. At atomic the democrats acceptable the blacks and action for the HUMAN SUFFRAGE MOVEMENT!!!!!

Condi couldn’t alike be agitated to “help” her adolescent blacks aback they were all fucking dying while she had to go “SHOE SHOPPING”!!!!

Never acquaint me that bourgeois whore respects annihilation but money. Aloof a few, brainwashed black-people who admission gone actually racist. Aback 1950 the southern democrats and the republican affair admission DISPISED the atramentous people. They consistently admission and annihilation changed.

Plus there has never been one, not ONE affairs put in by Secretary Rice that helps any of the atramentous bodies anywhere. She’s aloof accession racist, fucking coward. She awash her action to the OIL company. Afterwards animate with the fundie church, actuality hated, she took her and a few added atramentous bodies and abutting UNOCOL oil to accomplish commodity of herself.

And she affronted into a monster aloof like all the white bodies there. That’s all. There will never be ANYTHING, ANYTHING adequate at all about the atramentous bodies in the republican party. They are actually bare of morals. They are aloof the aforementioned racists as Amends Rhenquist and Katherine Harris.

The atramentous bodies who acclimated to BE republican admission all left. Besides the aforementioned freaks who were consistently there. And that’s not a advanced issue. That’s a life-issue, a actuality of life.

Doug E

COMMENT #83 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/13/2005 @ 10:52 pm PT…

“We beatific Clinton flowers accustomed for nominating Madeline Albright (oh wow the FIRST WOMAN secretary of State) but the affronted Admiral who whips up hurricanes to appetite an complete atramentous breadth nominates the aboriginal anytime BLACK FEMALE secretary of state. (what advanced media has accepted him for this point on his resume of according opportunity?)”

This affectionate of banal babble is why you are a moron.. No one said Shrubby “whipped up a hurricane”, yet you jackasses accumulate aggravating to “spin” it like we say such things. What we SAID was, that asshole you like so abundant COMPLETELY FAILED in his responsiblities aback NATURE tossed a Huricane at us.. AND, afore that aback his accumulation of Repugs didn’t anticipate it would be annual it to blot money UPGRADING the LEVEYS.. duh? And, ANY admiral (again, for your apathetic Repug types.. I’m NOT a Dem) that bootless to booty accomplishments to assure Americans (in a “real threat” affectionate of way, not “we anticipate Saddam adeptness some day adjudge to get nukes and some day get aback at us for our actionable interfering) is a prick. Does that beggarly Clinton is to accusation if he and the Dems didn’t accord the money to the Levey projects? YUP… that’s what I”m saying. Funny how you can’t say the aforementioned about Shrubby..

“NUMBEROUS liberals accepted their racism aback they consistently questioned her categorical credentials, cipher anytime asked that of Warren Christopher, what were his qualifications?”

This for her promotion? or aboriginal posting… either way, aback she was accession who towed the affair band and helped lie us into an actionable war, I don’t see how you can say she has “impecable creditials”.. Does Powell, with his 2 wars aria into, he admission “impecable credentials” too? aback he tows the affair line? is that what “impecable credentials” means?

“Liberals are ridiculous, they patronize racism by adage affirmitive action is all-important because blacks are stupider and Janice shoots it bottomward because she is angered by this and proves otherwise.”

are you actually that retarded? You anticipate “liberals” appetite acknowledging action because they anticipate “blacks are stupid”?? Are you REALLY that ignorant? Acknowledging action is about ONE thing.. authoritative abiding RICH WHITE RACIST FUCKS don’t discriminate, period. If anyone has -any- added argument, that argument, abnormally if the anticipation is to “help out those brainless blacks”, is adequate bullshit. Racisism is a austere botheration in this country, in case you didn’t notice. Authoritative abiding baby business owners aren’t acute is, sadly, commodity that needs to be done. Does Acknowledging action admission it’s flaws? probably.. are there times aback accession adeptness appoint a boyhood instead of a bigger able “white” person? possibly.. but I’m academic it’s 1 in 10,000,000 aback that happens. I additionally assumption that there are a lot added accusations of that happening, but I agnosticism it’s a aggressive botheration in this country.

Not abiding annihilation about “butterfly ballots” or “liberals adage blacks were aloof too impaired to bulk it out”.. to be honest, that sounds to me like commodity a wing-nut would “say” Liberals said, with no affidavit to aback it up. Abhorrence to do this to ya (not really), but if you appetite to accommodate any believability to that claim, column some links..

-I- don’t admission any botheration with African Americans.. I admission a HUGE botheration with flush white amalgamation aggravating to beforehand their privledge over anybody else. Attending at the top 100 richest bodies in the world.. how abounding are non-white? Yet, white isn’t the complete blush on the planet..

COMMENT #84 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 11:32 pm PT…

“Condaleeza Rice and Clarence Thomas are about as Atramentous as Martha fucking Stewart!!!!!!!!!”

Wow, that is ULTRA racist to adjudge for TWO BLACKS actually how atramentous they are and how authentic they are to their race. I smile in annual your complete response. The actuality that TRULY INTELLEGENT individuals (who appear to be black) rose on their own affirmation to their positions, and that bodies like you allege this is so racist and ailing that you admission actually talked yourself into assertive that you actually apperceive what is best for the atramentous race!

Bravo you adequate liberal.

Do you apperceive what according befalling means. Attending up both words individually, put them calm and you will see that it has absoutely annihilation to do with acknowledging action.

I can see that I addled a assumption in pointing out what racists the democrats are and how they admission a BIG botheration with blacks – not to acknowledgment atramentous women.You become affronted at my abstraction that blacks are as able as any white to acceleration to positions on their own merit.

Don’t you see? You in your own words are arrant to accumulate blacks bottomward in acclimation to discharge and sputter “racism” from the appropriate afterwards any affidavit aloof to admission their votes. Abandoned a liberal!

Lastly, every aloft democrat like Howard Dean, and of beforehand Al Sharpton has awash Katrina as a black/white issue. New Orleans is 80% black, 100% of them were warned prior, and the all-inclusive majority of that 100% got the hell out! EQUAL OPPORTUNITY. It was never a black/white issue.

Yes liberals beneath it all are blessed that Katrina happened and are blaming Katrina on Bush. Your argot can about-face from one point to the abutting but at the end, it’s a adventitious for you to scrape the basal of the pudding cup for annual to Bushbash aback the antiwar/Cindy Sheehan fest bootless miserably .

Stop calumniating the blacks, and alpha giving them the annual of the doubt. Abdicate application them for votes, they deserve bigger than that!

COMMENT #85 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/13/2005 @ 11:34 pm PT…

“Condaleeza Rice and Clarence Thomas are about as Atramentous as Martha fucking Stewart!!!!!!!!!”

Wow, that is ULTRA racist to adjudge for TWO BLACKS actually how atramentous they are and how authentic they are to their race. I smile in annual your complete response. The actuality that TRULY INTELLEGENT individuals (who appear to be black) rose on their own affirmation to their positions, and that bodies like you allege this is so racist and ailing that you admission actually talked yourself into assertive that you actually apperceive what is best for the atramentous race!

Bravo you adequate liberal.

Do you apperceive what according befalling means. Attending up both words individually, put them calm and you will see that it has absoutely annihilation to do with acknowledging action.

I can see that I addled a assumption in pointing out what racists the democrats are and how they admission a BIG botheration with blacks – not to acknowledgment atramentous women.You become affronted at my abstraction that blacks are as able as any white to acceleration to positions on their own merit.

Don’t you see? You in your own words are arrant to accumulate blacks bottomward in acclimation to discharge and sputter “racism” from the appropriate afterwards any affidavit aloof to admission their votes. Abandoned a liberal!

Lastly, every aloft democrat like Howard Dean, and of beforehand Al Sharpton has awash Katrina as a black/white issue. New Orleans is 80% black, 100% of them were warned prior, and the all-inclusive majority of that 100% got the hell out! EQUAL OPPORTUNITY. It was never a black/white issue.

Yes liberals beneath it all are blessed that Katrina happened and are blaming Katrina on Bush. Your argot can about-face from one point to the abutting but at the end, it’s a adventitious for you to scrape the basal of the pudding cup for annual to Bushbash aback the antiwar/Cindy Sheehan fest bootless miserably .

Stop calumniating the blacks, and alpha giving them the annual of the doubt. Abdicate application them for votes, they deserve bigger than that!

COMMENT #86 [Permalink]… Doug Eldritch said on 10/13/2005 @ 11:41 pm PT…

Sorry pal, I’m a progressive, and I don’t accede with your advanced OR bourgeois bullshit.

Steve, you are actually ailing and proving what a racist aberration you are. You are adage that liberals “all” appetite to abjure Black’s according opportunity, accusing them all of the aforementioned affair conservatives do.

If that isn’t actually irrational, if that doesn’t accomplish a lick of faculty I don’t apperceive what does!

THOSE BLACK PEOPLE WERE ROUNDED UP, AND STUCK IN THE DOMES BY FEMA!!!!!

By sick, actually bamboozled individuals like Michael Chertoff!!!!!!

Their baptize accumulation was CUT!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can’t alike analyze any of those things, the BLACK amalgamation was so disgusted by the arrant racism you can’t alike CAPTURE it on television!!!!!!!!!!

By the way, YOU are acutely adjoin befalling for blacks of any sory!!!!!!!!

You apperceive why!??? Because you don’t admission any absorption in FIGHTING POVERTY brought on by the babble bourgeois calendar of “big government” actuality a abortive allotment of bureocratic garbage.

So instead, complete STATES drown!!!!!!!!!! And those atramentous people, aback they DO get into the accomplished positions of adeptness and ascendancy companies like AT&T, and they don’t BEND OVER FOR THE WHITE RICH FOLKS, they get discharge aloft and discriminated against. I’ve credible HUNDREDS of them discriminated in every audible corporation, which is actually breadth you work.

And you act like this bits is all the LIBERALS accountability instead.

Give me a bribery break. One time, one audible time if you cons took albatross for your klu-klux plan accomplished you MIGHT get accession to see your point. You MIGHT get accession to booty your side. Alike one time. But no, instead you accusation it all on anybody else.

You booty albatross for nothing, bourgeois my ass.

Doug

COMMENT #87 [Permalink]… Doug Eldritch said on 10/13/2005 @ 11:48 pm PT…

And if we booty accession like Kenneth Blackwell for example:

A authentic died in the whool conservative, who helped Amends Rhenquist accomplish racism country-wide afterwards the Civilian Rights capitalism march.

A man who has awash out his accomplished fucking body to an army of White, Rich, Christians who admission force-fed him fundamentalist babble aback he was 20. So that he could rise, and end up TEARING UP aborigine cards of his OWN atramentous comrades, who aloof happened to DISAGREE with his abbey or his viewpoint. What a abundant guy!!!!

As adequate as Joseph Goebells in actuality or Baron Rothchild. He accepted assuredly how racist he is adjoin his own kind, and gave up on the anticipation of “giving democrats any affectionate of help.”

Politics, that’s all it was to Blackwell. He doesn’t alike acquire his own as bodies does he? Is that the affectionate of BLACK PERSON we appetite on the fucking accomplished cloister in the land?!?!????

Wow, KKK actuality we come!!!!

Doug

COMMENT #88 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/13/2005 @ 11:57 pm PT…

“Lastly, every aloft democrat like Howard Dean, and of beforehand Al Sharpton has awash Katrina as a black/white issue. New Orleans is 80% black, 100% of them were warned prior, and the all-inclusive majority of that 100% got the hell out! EQUAL OPPORTUNITY. It was never a black/white issue.

Stop calumniating the blacks, and alpha giving them the annual of the doubt. Abdicate application them for votes, they deserve bigger than that!”

Look, you apprenticed twit.. Cogent bodies with NO MEANS to get out, afresh blaming them for not abrogation is the apotheosis of ignorance. To say “hey, we’re alleviative them like accustomed animal beings.. we warned them.. it’s their own accountability for not leaving” is to IGNORE that, with no car (poverty, it’s a bitch), they didn’t admission your fabulous (for them) “equal opportunity”, and aback the businesses bailed (no busses or rental cars, not that they could admission afforded rental cars, duh?), they had no way out. Yet, you appetite to say “they admission every befalling that white bodies do, so it’s their own fault”.. which, while “strictly” true, fails to annual for the CLASS DIFERENCES, which is what MOST of us are harping on. We’re NOT adage “those poor brainless blacks, they bare added admonition annual they are aloof too impaired to leave”.. we’re adage “you flush fuckers (who are 90 % whites) allegation to stop shitting on 30% of our society.. attending at these amalgamation with no cars and no money to buy their way out.. they got decimated”. It’s not OUR accountability they are mostly black, that would be the basal adeptness of racisim in this country, perpitrated by .. you estimated it.. doubletalking apprenticed republicans angled on authoritative abiding “they accumulate theirs” at “what anytime cost”

It’s calumniating (and cogent of how affecting you actually are) to betoken accession is “happy” about the devistation that hit this country. To alike try and accompany that apriorism into an arguement is to prove that you are so bribery breach from acumen as to be sad. You affirmation you “don’t allegation to be in the aggressive to admission an appraisal about war”, which, while technically correct, gets bumped into “incredulous” aback you are now bold your complete abridgement of empathy.. which is REQUIRED if you plan on accepting a “reasonable” appraisal on such matters.

You sir, are an insult to appropriate animal beings, and a acclaim to your psycho egoistic party.

COMMENT #89 [Permalink]… unirealist said on 10/14/2005 @ 5:29 am PT…

Steve F. is paid to be actuality on this thread. Isn’t that obvious? You cannot win adjoin him, because he’s like the Tar Baby. Noble efforts, though.

Steve, analyze your ancestors business for us. If it actually exists, we’ll all accelerate you a few dollars to admonition you accomplish it in these recessionary Republican times.

Otherwise, get an honest job, please. It’s affecting to abettor for a living.

COMMENT #90 [Permalink]… Dredd said on 10/14/2005 @ 6:01 am PT…

Steve Flesher #21

You said “I’ve consistently been animate and so admission the abstract of republicans.”

I don’t apperceive whether to say “ok stevie, if you say so it allegation be ipso facto true” or to say “get some sleep, your apperception is acutely tired”.

You said “If you ask any American appropriate now afterwards an animate absorption in politics, you will see that a huge majority of the country is affronted artlessly because of gas prices.”

I admission to congratulate you actuality … for blockage on affair sorta. I beggarly the answerable bulk you beforehand is acclamation aback you apostle “ask any american”. Assumption what Steve, that is what they did!

But you are a bit off because the added specific answerable bulk is what is said aback americans are polled about what this Admiral is doing.

These acclamation actualization a low appraisal of the President, and that has been the trend for actually some time. The trend is the story.

You go on to say “Pure and simple” for your cessation … er uh … estimation of the poll you suggested.

So I admiration if you consistently go OT (off topic) and accomplish up your own affair and afresh accord a “pure and simple” conclusion? Is it abandoned authentic and simple if it is off affair (denial) and your own opinion?

The pollsters who admission been at it for years, and who were demography the aforementioned acclamation aback the Admiral was very, complete aerial in the acclamation admission all of a abrupt absent their abstention and artlessness because the Admiral is now very, complete low in the aforementioned polls? Because of gas prices? I don’t anticipate you are gonna advertise abounding lolly ancestor with that one Steve.

Why did these pollsters accomplish such a aberration and ask “Do you admission of the job the Admiral is doing?” and 39% admission and 54% disapprove? Should they admission asked “Do you admission of the job gas prices are doing?”

Why did these pollsters accomplish such a aberration and ask “Is the country headed in the appropriate direction?” and 28% say yes and 59% say no? Should the pollsters admission asked the aforementioned catechism for a altered topic?

Why did these pollsters accomplish such a aberration and ask “Who should booty ascendancy in the accessible elections?” and 39% say republicans and 48% say democrats? Should the pollsters admission asked who do you appetite to set gas prices in 2006? That dog won’t coursing Steve.

You assured “If the gas prcices drop, you’ll see the appraisement fly aback up”.

Well, I can say that your commodity is actually simple or added to the point actually simplistic. It is additionally naive. It is additionally wrong.

COMMENT #91 [Permalink]… Dredd said on 10/14/2005 @ 6:36 am PT…

Let me get OT a moment, and accompany up a Presidential Poll.

This poll (they ask americans questions) indicates:

“Forty-one percent of respondents said Bush’s admiral will be credible as bootless in the continued run, while 26 percent said the opposite.”

“People were absorbed to say Bush’s behavior admission fabricated things worse on a advanced ambit of issues such as the federal annual deficit, the gap amid flush and poor, bloom care, the economy, relations with U.S. allies, the tax arrangement and education” (link here).

When are these pollsters gonna get it and poll like Steve F does? Aback are they gonna apprehend it is authentic and simple and ALL about gas prices?

Well stevie, the acknowledgment authentic and simple is that the bodies do get it. Alike with the abundantly huge MSM announcement apparatus on its ancillary the bu$hit lie storm has not gotten to the american people. They apperceive bu$hit aback they aroma it.

And yes, they additionally apperceive that bu$hit comes from the oil barrons as do the gas prices. They don’t like any of it and I am one of them.

Just poll me.

COMMENT #92 [Permalink]… Robert Lockwood Mills said on 10/14/2005 @ 7:21 am PT…

If it weren’t for the blogosphere (take a bow, Brad) the accessible adeptness not “get it.”

Nobody dislikes Backcountry added than I do, but if I can ache with him on anything, it’s the fickleness of the boilerplate media. Afterwards 9/11, aback his poll ratings were at 75-80% approval, not one audible anchorman from a aloft cardboard or TV arrangement had the audacity to catechism Backcountry on anything. They bought the administration’s adventure on 9/11 (stay tuned), on WMD (a broke question…none), on captive bribery (now we apperceive the truth), and bootless to analyze the baseborn 2004 acclamation (stay tuned) and the accessory issues of Clint Curtis and Ray Lemme.

Cowards, every one of them. Now that Backcountry is at 39%, they’re analytic everything. There’s no abhorrence of backfire now, because the White Abode lacks the ascendancy and the absorption bulk to wreak animus on media skeptics. Here’s to Brad and added bloggers, who admission been adventurous to allege accuracy to adeptness all along.

COMMENT #93 [Permalink]… texaslady said on 10/14/2005 @ 7:21 am PT…

Steve F – No one is blaming hurricanes on Bush, the accusation is the handling, planning afterwards.Which was none. Federal aid, for which taxes are paid is acquire to be there to help.

The abridgement of planning on aggregate this administering has gotten America into is what should accomplish anybody mad. Breadth is all the money that we are now borrowing action to appear from to accord China?

On the aggressive issue, aback you admission the adeptness to accelerate others to war you bet it is important that you admission been there yourself.

Bush’s war would end anon if a abstract was reinstated and ALL adolescent men and women had to serve two years, no exceptions.

COMMENT #94 [Permalink]… Rosencrantz said on 10/14/2005 @ 7:24 am PT…

I like how of bodies who say the country is on the amiss clue additionally say Backcountry is accomplishing a abundant job and Republicans should booty control.

Republicans admission ascendancy voer every audible affiliated of Gov’t and arguably the media as well. It is their ascendancy and Bush’s behavior that are putting the country on the amiss track. How can say the country is on the amiss track…but not accusation it on Republicans or the Admiral is aloof amazing to me.

COMMENT #95 [Permalink]… Uncle Bob said on 10/14/2005 @ 7:37 am PT…

Umm…

I arrest to see how exactl the annual is good?

After what you’ve done in the aftermost few years alone, a wooping ~40% of the citizenry that supports these accomplishments proove that there actually is no hope… (other than a nuclear apple war)

IRT ROSENCRANTZ’s comments above:

I apperceive you bodies apprentice history from hollywood and folklore from mtv, but this is artlessly hilarious…

You appetite to put bodies on Mars while 1 in 5 american adults belives the Sun revolves about Earth…

You are branch for a Dark Ages – director’s cut speical archetype – remake…

COMMENT #96 [Permalink]… Uncle Bob said on 10/14/2005 @ 7:46 am PT…

One added allotment of american idiocy:

quote from above:

“Yeah, Bush’s approval ratings are down. Gas prices are up. Aback gas is up, approval is down.”

And there it is… Whether a absolutist in Sudan or a admiral in Fascist States of America, all bodies in allegation ache aback their citizens don’t get their ‘fix’…

Bush’s ratings don’t go bottomward for slaughtering bags aloft thousands, not for application DU and added crap, not alike for bringing aback absolutism in the 21th century, but because gas prices go up…

Gee.. what a moron… I mean, if he could somehow kept the bulk of gas low, you bodies would’ve been in a complete “serious” agitation over able design…

Eh, well, animate and learn…

I admission a 1000$ bet that afterwards all this is over, on the complete ancillary of the adventure (aka, breadth you abjure from Iraq, adjoin advancing Iran, Syria and coast the accomplished planet into ‘nukular’ war at which point my bet owuld be useless), you bodies will go on animate the ‘american dream’ and Iraq and iraqis (what’s larboard of them, anyway) will ache the aforementioned fate as Vietnam…

COMMENT #97 [Permalink]… texaslady said on 10/14/2005 @ 7:49 am PT…

Ok this is OT but amuse acquaint me. Why are the conservatives so agitated with Miers nomination? How is she any altered from the added ‘no acquaintance needed’ bodies he has put in place?

And the why, able-bodied if you or your accompany adeptness admission to go afore the Complete Cloister its best to admission your acquaintance be a adjudicator isn’t it? The acquaintance who thinks you are the best able man she has met? She actually does allegation to enlarge her amphitheater of acquaintences

COMMENT #98 [Permalink]… big dan said on 10/14/2005 @ 8:11 am PT…

2 comments:

1. Who are the 2% blacks who admission of Bush? And can you acquisition some of them and get them on the Brad Radio Show???

2. The acclamation are accurate, as usual, and alike the MSM quotes polls. Except the avenue polls, which showed Kerry acquisition Backcountry by 5 actor votes. Again, the acclamation accepted the acclamation was stolen, but the MSM quotes acclamation every day, except the 2004 avenue polls. And it agency nothing, if a poll shows a Republican accident the pre-election acclamation & the avenue polls, but afresh somehow adequate the “final count” on the cyberbanking voting machines. Watch…Casey is double-digits advanced of Santorum…and furthermore, the avenue acclamation will actualization Casey smoker Santorum, but Santorum will win the “final count” 51%-49%.

…and don’t forget, locate some of those 2% blacks who admission of Bush, and get them on the Brad Show.

COMMENT #99 [Permalink]… Dredd said on 10/14/2005 @ 8:15 am PT…

Yesterday’s Washington Column appear that aback asked whether she would admission invaded Iraq accustomed the intelligence at the time, Lady Thatcher replied: “I was a scientist afore I was a politician. And as a scientist I apperceive you allegation facts, affirmation and affidavit – and afresh you check, amend and assay again.”

She added: “The actuality was that there were no facts, there was no evidence, and there was no proof. As a baby-kisser the best austere accommodation you can booty is to accomplish your armed casework to war from which they may not return.”

Wow alike neoCon Thatcher knows what starting the war was based upon. Alike tho she advocates war to depose dictators, she does not apostle accomplishing so beneath apocryphal pretenses.

Wow acquaintance of acumen … who knew?

COMMENT #100 [Permalink]… big dan said on 10/14/2005 @ 8:20 am PT…

STEVE F:

Please animadversion on the PNAC & WHIG…

COMMENT #101 [Permalink]… Dredd said on 10/14/2005 @ 8:21 am PT…

Texas Lady #103

Read this commodity to betrayal the acceptance the appropriate accession is arguing with the abstinent republicans about.

Both are amiss and are active beneath bookish ambidexterity fostered by the neoCons for years.

COMMENT #102 [Permalink]… big dan said on 10/14/2005 @ 8:30 am PT…

I anticipate there was a atramentous baby-kisser at the RNC convention, wasn’t there? I anticipate they showed him from altered angles, too!

One affair not mentioned in STEVE F’s askew history lesson, is that the pro-slavery Democrats, accepted as the “Dixie-Crats”, larboard the affair for the GOP. There was a audible anti-slavery advanced allotment of the Autonomous Affair at that time, and a audible “Dixie-Crat” allotment of the party, whom all larboard to accompany the GOP. Zell “from hell” Miller is the aftermost of the “Dixie-Crats”, and can you actually alarm him a Democrat? For Christ’s sake, he was a keynote apostle at the RNC convention!!! And he challenged Chris Matthews to a duel!

So, the RNC had Zell Miller & that one atramentous baby-kisser as speakers, and they kept bold him from altered angles so it appeared there was added than one atramentous baby-kisser at the RNC convention!

STEVE F would admission us admission the GOP is the pro-black party! Nice propoganda, Steve! A adequate propogandist is an artist, and STEVE F is actually one!

I’d like Steve’s comments on the PNAC, WHIG (the abstruse Backcountry administering pro-Iraq war “group”, and the 2004 avenue acclamation adage Kerry won).

COMMENT #103 [Permalink]… texaslady said on 10/14/2005 @ 8:36 am PT…

Dredd – accede you for that link…..of beforehand a person’s claimed belief plays a allotment in actuality a judge, who wouldn’t admission that?

So, with her able religious leanings the conservatives should abstract in peace.

It astounds me that aborticide is alike a political issue, it is a religious issue. We let bodies die every day, with abridgement of healthcare, alarming beforehand affliction and poverty. Our baby bloodshed is worse than 1958 yet we are affronted about abortion, a claimed best that the actuality authoritative it has to animate with.

COMMENT #104 [Permalink]… big dan said on 10/14/2005 @ 8:39 am PT…

…and, Bush’s acknowledgment to “help” the mostly atramentous citizenry of New Orleans, was to get no-bid affairs for his accomplice Halliburton companies, lower the accomplishment by abolishment the allowance law, and acceptation non-New Orleans workers (lots of them actionable immigrants) instead of giving atramentous New Orleans association the rebuilding jobs. Complete “pro-black” & “pro-American”!!! That was the accepted GOP acknowledgment to this disaster. They could’ve accepted otherwise, but they consistently attending for a way to pad their flush assembly and stick it to the poor/blacks. That is actually why Bush’s approval amid blacks is 2%. I can’t admission it’s not 0%!! That’s why I appetite these bodies on the Brad Show!!!

COMMENT #105 [Permalink]… merifour said on 10/14/2005 @ 9:08 am PT…

This had been complete absorbing reading. I came to this cilia aftermost night afterwards watching a documentary on Rove. He was a adept debater, which I knew, but hadn’t actually accustomed abundant anticipation to. I admission never been a debater (that I am anxiously acquainted of anyway) so this ‘debate’ absorbed me. I am aloof not the debating type, my bedmate is. Aback he gets into a agitation I consistently admission declared it an argument, I admission been wrong. Debating is a Skill, (I bethink we had a agitation chic in school), I aloof never gave the answerable abundant thought. I now will be able to attending at what I admission consistently declared ‘arguments’ in a altered light. Now, if I am amiss (ie: this does not accommodated the guidelines of a authentic debate) amuse don’t alternate to acquaint me. Acknowledgment all. M4

COMMENT #106 [Permalink]… Shannon Williford said on 10/14/2005 @ 9:37 am PT…

Wooo…I aloof apprehend all 99 comments in this stream, with altered abreast trips to added links…Been offline a brace weeks; had to bolt up and bethink why it was abundant to go alfresco and watch sunsets.My thoughts:1. Steve F. is artlessly a adamantine animate American who has bought into the Pub band that adamantine assignment can get you anywhere no bulk what. I accede that his ancestors formed continued days; but I’ll bet they had the ancestors and educational (not to acknowledgment government-provided) basement to be successful. I’ll bet their whiteness opened doors that undereducated amalgamation of blush couldn’t open. I accede that they deserve to accumulate their money instead of actuality burdened unfairly. But most, including bourgeois bulk George Will, agreed that we, as a nation, (even beneath Clinton) are undertaxed. For the casework we appetite – mimimally infrastructures, policing, regulation, aegis – we allegation pay. And those who admission the best benifits allegation pay (in any fair system) more. Alike in added heavily burdened countries, the flush haven’t abdicate animate because a bigger allotment of their money helps the government. They see that the tax money helps them accomplish lots added money, alike if they pay a academy allotment than the rank and book workers.I accede that Steve F. has ancestors that served in the military. So what? Best of us admission aggressive family. The catechism was why doesn’t he go serve, and he didn’t answer. Well, one botheration would be that he is gay; and accessible gays cannot (despite abundant affection assignment by aggressive gays elsewhere) serve in the US military.2. I’m a small-d democrat, acceptance I actually accede with the “people’s party” added about afresh with the affair of the rich; however, I allegation booty breach with accession else’s appraisal that Southern Dems are no altered now than they anytime were. No, in the 60s and 70s the racist and reactionary Dems in the South larboard and went with (first George Wallace and then) Nixon and became Pubs, the affection of their affair now. The open-minded, fair-minded, progressive-minded, advanced amid us stayed. And that includes best of the Blacks in the South. Why do Blacks breach Dem? Because the abandoned Blacks to move up in the Pubs’ affair are the ones who admission a pale in the flush man’s adventurous and are accommodating to do what the masters say in acclimation to awning their stake. And the accelerating Southern whites and blacks admission adopted a cardinal of moderates over the aftermost 30 years who admission done able-bodied by accomplishing right. Were there not ethically-challanged Dems? Of beforehand there were, but I a lot of us didn’t vote for ’em, and aback we saw they had absolute the accessible trust, we accustomed to bandy ’em out. And there doesn’t acquire to be about the abridgement of candor amid Dems as amid Pubs.3. I anticipate Powell is basically a adequate man who served beneath Pub and Dem administrations accomplishing the best he could. He was abundantly abandoned during the countdown to the war and afresh assertive to appear on lath in time to allocution to the UN. He assertive me at the time, as able-bodied as a lot of small-d Dems. Was he lying? I don’t know. I anticipate he was maybe aloof abashed by the hard-liners. I apperceive at the time he bidding agitation or altercation with some of the complete he was told to use, but aback he was apparantly brought around, as a affectionate Southern man (though not a warmonger) I was cautiously brought in band with the abstraction of a war, if all abroad failed. Of course, all abroad didn’t fail.4. Baseborn elections. The bigger issue. Steve F. ignores the facts. Bodies are actuality bedevilled for acclamation fraud. Added to come. We all aloof achievement it will be abundant to affright America into a complete cardboard acclamation bearings ASAP. Surely he is not in favor of elections advancing bottomward to our hackers vs. your hackers…5. Accepted Polls. NOW IS THE TIME TO YELL ABOUT COMPROMISED OR QUESTIONABLE ELECTIONS! America agrees that we are actuality screwed! America may be acceptant to the truth, as they are now starting to see the lies of their leaders. So let amalgamation apperceive in your conversations and in your newspapers and mainstram media. Some of the media are growing testes abundant to accede reality. DON’T DO IT NEGATIVELY! Don’t complete like acerb grapes. Aloof point out that we allegation to accomplish abiding we never afresh can admission to catechism whether the will of the bodies is actuality heard.6. Steve F. says that we are absurdly adage the Pubs blanket all their acclamation wins. No we’re not. Best acclamation artifice assemblage accede that what they did was abduct the presidency, and conceivably a few added spots. A agent here, a governor there. However, we admission to admission PAPER BALLOTS, and bounded adopted admiral of both parties, like ours actuality in TN, are starting to see it in acceding of “this could appear to me…”That’s what we should be bold them.

I achievement somebody reads this.

peace.

shw

COMMENT #107 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/14/2005 @ 9:58 am PT…

Lord, Im abashed you all leave me no choice.

Im action to admission to admission your niteclubs, annihilate your DJ’s and catechumen you all to Abercrombie.

Comments such as the following:

“I’ll bet their whiteness opened doors that undereducated amalgamation of blush couldn’t open.”

I beforehand you apprehend Condi’s complete adventure on how afflicted her “color” adventure is in Alabama as a child, and see how her atramentous opened aloof as abounding doors as my whiteness did for me.

“Surely he is not in favor of elections advancing bottomward to our hackers vs. your hackers… “

In acceding of the declared acclamation fraud, that is a abundant point to accompany up. Assurance me, if Republicans actually cheated, are you adage Democrats cheated beneath or about the same? If this is the case, afterwards demography abroad the cheating element, wouldn’t the after-effects admission appear out the same? LOL. This is actually why the baseborn acclamation theories admission not gotten abundant coverage.

“One affair not mentioned in STEVE F’s askew history lesson, is that the pro-slavery Democrats, accepted as the “Dixie-Crats”, larboard the affair for the GOP.”

Lopsided? It was an complete timeline of events, archetype and adhesive it and acquire your own comments. Acceptance I allegation say it will not change the facts that it was REPUBLICANS that allowable rights for blacks BY IN LARGE, and it was and charcoal REPUBLICANS that put them in aerial office. Not democrats….again attending at the evidence, blacks abandoned beggarly one affair to liberals…VOTES.

“Steve F. is paid to be actuality on this thread. Isn’t that obvious? You cannot win adjoin him”

LOL, I am not paid to be on actuality and I am not appropriate to agitation and defeat breathless advanced arguments. LOL. It’s affectionate of accepted actually.

The things bodies say!

COMMENT #108 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/14/2005 @ 10:01 am PT…

Lord, Im abashed you all leave me no choice.

Im action to admission to admission your niteclubs, annihilate your DJ’s and catechumen you all to Abercrombie.

Comments such as the following:

“I’ll bet their whiteness opened doors that undereducated amalgamation of blush couldn’t open.”

I beforehand you apprehend Condi’s complete adventure on how afflicted her “color” adventure is in Alabama as a child, and see how her atramentous opened aloof as abounding doors as my whiteness did for me.

“Surely he is not in favor of elections advancing bottomward to our hackers vs. your hackers… “

In acceding of the declared acclamation fraud, that is a abundant point to accompany up. Assurance me, if Republicans actually cheated, are you adage Democrats cheated beneath or about the same? If this is the case, afterwards demography abroad the cheating element, wouldn’t the after-effects admission appear out the same? LOL. This is actually why the baseborn acclamation theories admission not gotten abundant coverage.

“One affair not mentioned in STEVE F’s askew history lesson, is that the pro-slavery Democrats, accepted as the “Dixie-Crats”, larboard the affair for the GOP.”

Lopsided? It was an complete timeline of events, archetype and adhesive it and acquire your own comments. Acceptance I allegation say it will not change the facts that it was REPUBLICANS that allowable rights for blacks BY IN LARGE, and it was and charcoal REPUBLICANS that put them in aerial office. Not democrats….again attending at the evidence, blacks abandoned beggarly one affair to liberals…VOTES.

“Steve F. is paid to be actuality on this thread. Isn’t that obvious? You cannot win adjoin him”

LOL, I am not paid to be on actuality and I am not appropriate to agitation and defeat breathless advanced arguments. LOL. It’s affectionate of accepted actually. I aloof adulation to watch liberals go crazy aback their cool arguments are stepped on with analytic thought.

The things bodies say!

COMMENT #109 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/14/2005 @ 10:04 am PT…

Lord, Im abashed you all leave me no choice.

Im action to admission to admission your niteclubs, annihilate your DJ’s and catechumen you all to Abercrombie.

Comments such as the following:

“I’ll bet their whiteness opened doors that undereducated amalgamation of blush couldn’t open.”

I beforehand you apprehend Condi’s complete adventure on how afflicted her “color” adventure is in Alabama as a child, and see how her atramentous opened aloof as abounding doors as my whiteness did for me.

“Surely he is not in favor of elections advancing bottomward to our hackers vs. your hackers… “

In acceding of the declared acclamation fraud, that is a abundant point to accompany up. Assurance me, if Republicans actually cheated, are you adage Democrats cheated beneath or about the same? If this is the case, afterwards demography abroad the cheating element, wouldn’t the after-effects admission appear out the same? LOL. This is actually why the baseborn acclamation theories admission not gotten abundant coverage.

“One affair not mentioned in STEVE F’s askew history lesson, is that the pro-slavery Democrats, accepted as the “Dixie-Crats”, larboard the affair for the GOP.”

Lopsided? It was an complete timeline of events, archetype and adhesive it and acquire your own comments. Acceptance I allegation say it will not change the facts that it was REPUBLICANS that allowable rights for blacks BY IN LARGE, and it was and charcoal REPUBLICANS that put them in aerial office. Not democrats….again attending at the evidence, blacks abandoned beggarly one affair to liberals…VOTES.

“Steve F. is paid to be actuality on this thread. Isn’t that obvious? You cannot win adjoin him”

LOL, I am not paid to be on actuality and I am not appropriate to agitation and defeat breathless advanced arguments. LOL. It’s affectionate of accepted actually. I aloof adulation to watch liberals go crazy aback their cool arguments are stepped on with analytic thought.

The things bodies say!

COMMENT #110 [Permalink]… ThomNYC said on 10/14/2005 @ 10:13 am PT…

Once afresh I accompaniment – Backcountry doesn’t affliction about abrogating columnist and/or polls. Until complete recently, the players about him suffered from the aforementioned complete disconnect.

But, some are alpha to admission they busted up. That’s not aloof an “oops” in acceding of acclamation or ballots in the midterm elections. It’s legacy.

History is action to bethink these amalgamation for what they are – monsters.

COMMENT #111 [Permalink]… MarkH said on 10/14/2005 @ 10:14 am PT…

Isn’t it amazing how Steve F developed an absent-mindedness about the time aeon 1961-1968? Abiding the Republicans from Lincoln to Eisenhower were pro-equal rights, but from Kennedy&Johnson alee that changed. There is alike a admission that the acumen Kennedy was asleep (especially in the South) was that he advantaged according rights for the Blacks. Whatever the accuracy of that it showed that the Southern Dixiecrat Democrats actually abominable Kennedy for his afflicted policy. Conceivably that’s why Republicans today abide to accredit to any any Autonomous applicant for admiral as a Massachussets Advanced — to admonish Southerners of Kennedy.

Clearly, from Johnson advanced the Autonomous party, bedeviled by Northerners afflicted administering and absitively according rights was added iportant than befitting the Southern Dixiecrats onboard. Funny how Steve F didn’t apprehension this awe-inspiring political change in America. I assumption a lot of Republicans actually are stupid.

After Nixon began his Soutern Action the change was complete: Democrats got the Atramentous vote and Republicans got the “conservative” Southern racist vote (now declared the Christian Right).

Any Republican who doesn’t apperceive this history is aloof an idiot.

That Republicans began application Blacks and women in added contempo years is aloof P.R. The affair is still disqualified by the basal amoebic anatomy of a abundantly racist Southern conservatives assertive the country.

Democrats admission registered a lot added voters in the aftermost 8 years, but baseborn elections negated that. If we can get that straightened-out it will be absorbing to see how the vote breach goes.

COMMENT #112 [Permalink]… Margaret G said on 10/14/2005 @ 10:30 am PT…

Mark H. is actually correct. “Republicans got the “conservative” Southern racist vote (now declared the Christian Right)”. And it isn’t aloof southern, it’s national. Hiding abaft the Evangelical /Republican banderole flies the angled and agee cantankerous of the Nazi movement in America. Their targets are Blacks, Jews, and Gays. Their goals are elimination, and they are on schedule.

COMMENT #113 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/14/2005 @ 12:02 pm PT…

The authentic history of the Republican and Democrat parties:

1854 The New Republican Affair is formed from aloft Democrats and Whig Affair associates in action to the addendum of bullwork into the US Territories. James Fremont becomes the Party’s aboriginal Presidential applicant in 1856.

1860 Abraham Lincoln becomes the aboriginal Republican adopted as Admiral of the United States.

1862 A presidential acclimation abolishes bullwork in the Commune of Columbia as a commencement to the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863.

1864 The Republican Civic Assemblage makes the abolishment of bullwork a axle in its platform.

1865 Lincoln’s assassination leaves Carnality Admiral Andrew Johnson, a abstinent Democrat from Tennessee, to baby-sit the alpha of Southern Reconstruction.

1865-1870 Republicans canyon aboriginal Civilian Rights Act of 1866 to admission it attenuated by Southern Democrats. Republican controlled Assembly passes the 13th through 15th Constitutional amendments catastrophe slavery, accepting according acknowledged aegis and voting rights for aloft slaves. African Americans adjust themselves with the Republican Affair as a aftereffect for several generations.

1866 Formation of the aboriginal Ku Klux Klan, the agitator accession of the Autonomous Party, to alarm Abolitionist Republican legislators and African-American voters during Reconstruction.

1870 Hiram R Revels, a Republican African-American, is adopted to ample US Senate bench aforetime captivated by Jefferson Davis and Joseph H Rainey is adopted as the aboriginal African American Congressman – additionally Republican. (By my assay of putting aloof their name into Google, I had to assay at atomic 10 altered sites afore I could acquisition a acknowledgment of their political affiliation.)

1871 Republican Admiral Admission animate into law a bill authoritative the browbeating admission of the Ku Klux Klan alike to rebellion. Enforcement of this Act helped accompany about the abatement of the Klan in the 19th Century.

1875 Republican Blanche K Bruce of Mississippi becomes the aboriginal African-American adopted to a abounding appellation in the US Senate.

1878 Republican Agent A A Sargent from California, alien the 19th Amendment. Sargent�s alteration (also accepted as the Susan B Anthony Amendment) was defeated four times in the afterwards years by the Democrat-controlled Senate. (yes, Repubilcans pioneered Woman’s Capitalism too)

1920 The Republican Civic Assemblage declares that African-Americans allegation be accepted to all accompaniment and commune conventions.

1932 Franklin Roosevelt is adopted admiral over his opponent, bounden Herbert Hoover as a aftereffect of Republicans actuality abhorrent in allotment for the bread-and-butter Depression. Hoover receives added than 75% of the African-American vote.

1936 The Autonomous Affair wins abutment of African-Americans on bread-and-butter breadth acceptance their annealed action to civilian rights for blacks.

1952 Dwight D Eisenhower adopted Admiral in barrage victory. He continues a able civic aegis adopted action and halts all segregationist practices beneath his ascendancy in the Federal Government including the military.

1957 and 1960 – Eisenhower introduces a Civilian Rights Bill to admission it blocked by the Autonomous majority in Congress. Democrats adios the bill acceptance Eisenhower’s accession of accommodation language

1963 Kennedy reintroduces and pushes for a civilian rights bill to assembly afterwards agitated ancestral animosity in Birmingham, AL. He is assassinated afore its passage. Admiral Johnson works with Senate Republicans and resurrects Eisenhower’s accommodation accent in the bill in acclimation to breach the Autonomous delay and acquiesce its admission in 1964 and admission of the Voting Rights Act in 1965.

MUST READ links apropos the authentic voting history of the Civilian Rights Act and Voting Rights Act. REPUBLICANS SUPPORTED IT FAR MORE THAN DEMOCRATS:

http://www.nationalcente…/NVDavisBradley1299.html

http://www.nationalcente…g/P21NVDavisGore599.html

1966 Edward W Brooke (R-MA) is the aboriginal African-American adopted to the US Senate by accepted vote.

1989 Admiral Backcountry appoints Accepted Colin L Powell as Armchair of the US Collective Chiefs of Staff, Condoleezza Rice as administrator of Civic Aegis Council and Louis Sullivan as Secretary of Bloom and Animal Services.

1991 Admiral Backcountry appoints Clarence Thomas to US Complete Court.

1998 US Abode of Representatives elects JC Watts (R-OK) to be Chairman of the Abode Republican Conference.

2001 Admiral George W Backcountry appoints Accepted Colin L Powell as Secretary of State, Roderick R Paige as Secretary of Apprenticeship and Condoleezza Rice as Advisor of the Civic Aegis Council.

——————————

Now – how abounding arresting blacks in government admission appear out of the Autonomous party? The almanac acutely shows that about all of the groundbreaking elections and accessories of blacks into aerial appointment were by Republican voters and Republican Presidents.

The Democrat Affair has agitated adjoin Civilian Rights throughout it’s existence. It won atramentous adherence through announcement and bread-and-butter initiatives – basically, they aria for and bought the vote. Meanwhile, segregationist Robert Byrd (D-WV) still holds his office, and Trent Lott, a Republican, suffers added political fallout over Strom Thurmond’s accomplished than Strom Thurmond did. Incidentally, during all the history of Civilian Rights activity, Strom Thurmond was a Democrat.

And yet, at every about-face in the media and academia, it is the group-think-obsessed liberals and Democrats who are hailed as champions of Civilian Rights. It is the best abandoned Pravda-like abetment of history I admission anytime witnessed, alike afore any afterlight of history I heard appear out of the Soviet Union.

Plus Doug, you said:”Steve, you are actually ailing and proving what a racist aberration you are. You are adage that liberals “all” appetite to abjure Black’s according opportunity, accusing them all of the aforementioned affair conservatives do.”

No Doug, this wouldn’t accomplish me a racist, it would accomplish me a appropriate bourgeois man who believes in authentic equality. If anything, it would prove my barf reflex for liberals and bodies like yourself who insult blacks accustomed with your nonsense.

Read a little American history, abdicate putting bottomward blacks’ abeyant for cocky growth, stop aloof them, and appear up with bigger arguments that “Bush is racist because of Katrina” or Bill Bennett’s adduce .

Goodnight!

COMMENT #114 [Permalink]… Doug Eldritch said on 10/14/2005 @ 12:12 pm PT…

LOL Steve, you admission assuredly abolished in bonfire your arguments.

–The southern Democrats were JUST AS RACIST as the Republicans.

–I already POINTED this actuality out to you in adventurous detail, and you abandoned it.

–A ample majority of the southern Democrats LEFT the Autonomous affair permanently, and became the authentic bulk of the REPUBLICAN party.

–From that point on, it has been aboveboard racist and the new Klu-Kluks-Klan of the capitalism movement, acknowledgment to southern Democrats and Constitutionalists.

–The abstract of the Southern Democrats became Reagan voters of the Reagan era, adopted a aberration declared Reagan, and afresh created the DLC. (Democratic Administering Council.)

–The DLC is about aloof as aboveboard racist. Besides the actuality it put Barack Obama and abounding added into Senate seats.

–The authentic autonomous arm of the affair basically larboard and formed the Greens, Libertarians, and so on.

–Anyone annual their alkali wants the DLC destroyed permanently, nowadays and the republicans to abatement for actuality RACIST.

–Yes it was the Southern Democrats fault, but the abstract of the accusation was on CONSERVATIVES alone, aback about every one of them WERE bourgeois democrats or bourgeois affronted white voters.

–They are now republicans, so there is NO acumen to say annihilation abroad now.

I criticize both to my heart’s content, but you don’t anytime say one affair adjoin YOUR OWN? I admiration why that is? Hmmm……Could it be you’re MORE than a little racist!????

I see minorities all the time accepting according rights, but aback you go bottomward south, abroad from the burghal cities of adequate education, you see the opposite…..something abundant worse, brought on by racism and INDIFFERENCE to the poor and to poverty.

And if it was up to me, I’d admission abolished the complete thing. Including the accomplished republican affair and the DLC democrats who created them. Apologetic I see things in the absoluteness community, and not in some babble “filter” of who is worse.

Doug E.

COMMENT #115 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/14/2005 @ 12:27 pm PT…

–1989 Admiral Backcountry appoints Accepted Colin L Powell as Armchair of the US Collective Chiefs of Staff, Condoleezza Rice as administrator of Civic Aegis Council and Louis Sullivan as Secretary of Bloom and Animal Services.

–2001 Admiral George W Backcountry appoints Accepted Colin L Powell as Secretary of State, Roderick R Paige as Secretary of Apprenticeship and Condoleezza Rice as Advisor of the Civic Aegis Council.

–Now – how abounding arresting blacks in government admission appear out of the Autonomous party?

funny, and 2 of those 3 (off the top of my head) LIED to the PUBLIC assorted times, to cull the affair band and pay aback their masters for giving them those jobs.. Your point? Abject our country into conflicts that had no business actuality faught (well, not anytime abiding about the aboriginal Gulf conflict, but the added I hear, the added it was babble too)? Powell should admission been put in bastille afterwards the aboriginal war.. Kindasleezy Rice (and Powell) should be confined this time (as should Shrubby and Rove and Cheney and Rumsfeld). Pathetic..

Bush isn’t racits because of Katrina.. I’ve consistently abominable that position.. he’s not racist if you ask me.. he hates all poor people. god brand him, he’s rich.. and god hates those poor folks.. As for Bill Bennett, still not credible annihilation from his on-air comments, and you still haven’t addressed the analytic falicy I showed you.. hmm.. admiration why.. could it be that Bill BELIEVES that if you asleep all the atramentous babies (even acceptance you can’t, and it’s about reprehensible) that the abomination bulk would go down? Botheration is, you could annihilate all the Repug babies and the abomination bulk would go bottomward too, and you’d see a MUCH aloft cardinal of bodies benifit from the bead in -that- abomination rate.. to the tune of 10s of millions, not 10s of thousands..

COMMENT #116 [Permalink]… Doug Eldritch said on 10/14/2005 @ 12:28 pm PT…

By the way you said Collin Powell was best by Backcountry and to the accomplished position…..

So this proves there’s no “racism”, no “class warfare”

That’s babble too.

Collin was a flush black-man, self-made and admired who said cryptic things about the war in Vietnam.

He was appointed because of his usefulness, not annihilation to do with race.

Meanwhile authentic African-Americans like Maxine Waters who grew up poor admission become allegedly the best admirable bodies in Assembly we will anytime have.

I bunch you to accommodated accession like Congresswoman Waters and say what you said to me. She will set you added than a little straight, aback her action has been an acclivous climb. And she welcomes all of her brothers and sisters to accomplish what they can, be democrats, or vote for furthering Civilian Rights.

Meanwhile, aloof like Backcountry the admiral of the DLC Al From additionally appointed African-Americans into key positions of power. Barack Obama is one such applicant purchased through their influence. Obama isn’t a bad man, but aloof like Powell, he already lived a action of luxury, has gone to Yale, and aggregate else.

He was best because of his accreditation and business, not because of his chase or annihilation associated with it. The DLC doesn’t assignment that way.

So actuality we admission two abundant examples: Powell and Obama, who you say, aloof because they were best proves “no racism”. I say attending at the autograph on the wall, the complete affidavit they were best to use as accessible relations props, screams RACISM from the getgo.

They admission been used, not actually accustomed for the capitalism movement. The aberration amid Powell & Obama and accession like Maxine Waters is an complete actor afar of ocean water-difference.

People who are already “priveledged” are best because they are priveledged, not because of any added reason. Whereas in authentic democracies, bodies like Waters are best because they admission been there. They admission what it takes and apperceive the history of their city, their culture, and how to stop poverty.

There’s actually no allegory at all. And you accepted my point.

Doug E.

COMMENT #117 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/14/2005 @ 12:33 pm PT…

I’m with you, Doug (though, I apperceive annihilation of the “past” of the parties, and don’t care). I’m not Dem or Repug.. I appetite adequation for anybody (even apprenticed gay republicans, go figure) and I”m all for authoritative abiding those who would be oppressors can’t function.

Problem is, for bodies like Steve F, if they don’t admission a “them” to discharge at, they admission nothing. As you acicular out, he’s abounding of vitrol adjoin “democrats” and says annihilation bad about TODAY’S repugs..

I anticipate it’s amuzing to watch them agonize aback 90% of their position is “yeah, able-bodied attending what dems did!”, and us non-dems go “so? they were amiss too.. abuse them ,indict them, accompany charges.. we’ll acclamation for that too”.. they admission no abode larboard to go, do they. And the added 10% of their arguments are about faith-based, and so admission no condonable position.. I adulation it

COMMENT #118 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/14/2005 @ 12:46 pm PT…

Oh, and Steve F.. I apprehend over a bit from Freakanomics.. NO WHERE in there was chase mentioned, not at all.. at atomic not in the bit from the web site. So, for your boy bennitt to allocution about “aborting atramentous babies” is for him to apprehend WAY too abundant into it.. In a sense, that become like a Freudian Slip, doesn’t it?

COMMENT #119 [Permalink]… unirealist said on 10/14/2005 @ 1:51 pm PT…

Back abreast the alpha I said,

Laura Ingraham:”Yeah, Bush’s approval ratings are down. Gas prices are up. Aback gas is up, approval is down.”End of story.

Please understand, I WAS MOCKING LAURA! I WASN’T AGREEING WITH HER!

COMMENT #120 [Permalink]… big dan said on 10/14/2005 @ 1:56 pm PT…

There is NO WAY Steve F is NOT cut/pasting this bits from somewhere…it’s too much, and it’s too fast…

COMMENT #121 [Permalink]… big dan said on 10/14/2005 @ 2:01 pm PT…

…and amuse apprehension that Steve F, as all conservative/rightwing bloggers do, abstain the questions.

Above, I asked for Steve F’s comments on PNAC, WHIG, the 2004 avenue acclamation bold Kerry won, and let’s bandy in the Downing Artery memo’s for adequate measure.

I actually actually abhorrence aback rightwing/conservative bloggers don’t acknowledgment questions that accomplish them attending bad. Abundant propogandists do that, they are abandoned adequate aback they drive the topic…that’s why they lose in courts of law, and that’s why they abhorrence courts of law.

In a cloister of law, the adjudicator would say, “Answer the question, please”…..

COMMENT #122 [Permalink]… unirealist said on 10/14/2005 @ 2:27 pm PT…

Big Dan, I accede with you. Too much, too fast, too slick. He’s not the family-business administrator he purports to be.

He’s a shill. And he is paid to be here.

COMMENT #123 [Permalink]… Doug Eldritch said on 10/14/2005 @ 2:42 pm PT…

Merifour-

Luckily for Pennsylvania we don’t admission to anguish about Santorum burglary it anymore. The voting machines were befuddled out of PA. All they are application is cardboard ballots now and additionally afterlight the complete arrangement to admission all-embracing & aborigine observers.

As continued as Bob Casey keeps action the way he has he’ll win.

The point of the matter: We allegation the machines out of the action alltogether or accidental chiral audits period, or elections are never to be trusted as fair afresh based on what we’ve credible with Diebold/ES&S.

Steve F You are still adopting the aforementioned talking-points repeatedly. Why don’t you agitation with a authentic conservative, George Will??? Acquaint him what you’ve told us, or told the liberals, and Mr. Will will actually set you straight.

Better you apprehend it from him, a right-winger than one of the opposition.

Doug E.

COMMENT #124 [Permalink]… Dredd said on 10/14/2005 @ 3:31 pm PT…

Steve F #113,#114,#115

Here it does not assignment to echo bu$hit over and over “until it sinks in”.

We already apperceive what you appetite is for it to fetor in.

Not gonna appear actuality Steve. We got your cardinal and your numbers. You are invalid.

You do not allege with bookish bluntness so you are not action to win any awards here, as bourgeois George Will did.

The reason? Again, bookish honesty. I apperceive you will not abject it. It takes what you do not yet have.

But stick around, acknowledgment Big Dan #121 because his questions are valid. Booty calendar of Mark H #117 and Margaret G #118, not to acknowledgment the added bloggers actuality who admission advantaged you.

Otherwise you will canyon into the fog of Atty Jimmo and a accomplished host of bruised folk we admission attentive addressed … up to a point. That point actuality bookish honesty. Leave that Steve and you are a gonner … a brume that will achromatize into discredit like the abstract of that ilk have.

Those conservatives like George Will and Adjudicator John Sirica who are intellectually honest will acquisition annual actuality … alike tho we disagree with their backroom and they ours, at atomic we bulk them as honest american brothers and sisters.

Not the faux bourgeois abyss we affliction to admission annihilation to do with. Trolls they be … rank trolls.

Heed my words.

COMMENT #125 [Permalink]… texaslady said on 10/14/2005 @ 4:04 pm PT…

It seems to me that Steve F and Dru Faulk actually aloof adore active the pot. Contrarily they would accede with complete debating points.

And I saw Ann Coulter on the echo of Bill Maher aftermost night and she actually fabricated sense, no agitation at all, not alike the accustomed spitefullness. Amazing !

COMMENT #126 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/14/2005 @ 5:56 pm PT…

Steve F.. lets attending at one PERFECT archetype of how apprenticed you are (to anyone with a academician that understands debate).

“”Surely he is not in favor of elections advancing bottomward to our hackers vs. your hackers… “

In acceding of the declared acclamation fraud, that is a abundant point to accompany up. Assurance me, if Republicans actually cheated, are you adage Democrats cheated beneath or about the same? If this is the case, afterwards demography abroad the cheating element, wouldn’t the after-effects admission appear out the same? LOL. This is actually why the baseborn acclamation theories admission not gotten abundant coverage.”

OK.. You try to accomplish a apriorism that “both cheated equally”, accordingly all the cheating is a wash, accordingly the counts were appropriate (and you imply, acceptance never answer, the avenue acclamation were -wrong- for the -first time in history-). If you use that affectionate of argumentation for your “clients”, you should be sued for incompetence.

Want ONE simple “example” of how “cheated same” has NO abode on “a ablution of result”? Lets say, for a second, that both parties cheated “the aforementioned amount”.. here’s the “amount”.. anniversary hacks the final tabulations on the axial tabulator machines (the abstracts is kept in a credible altercation Microsoft Windows Admission Database, one of the crappiest DBs out there). The Dems drudge aboriginal to accomplish abiding their guy wins.. 10 annual later, the Rethugs drudge to accomplish their guy win.. “same bulk of cheating”, and no breadth NEAR a “wash”..

Your argumentation is pathetic. M4 acicular out that Debating is a Skill.. the abandoned Skill “rethugs” accompany to debates is the adeptness to lie, distract, and accommodate bamboozlement (like your little actually fucked up argumentation exercise there).

You are a annoyed little man. Appealing anon bodies actuality will appear to apprehend that you are hopelessly lost. You are an enlitest who believes you admission added rights than others.. you admission it’s ok to accomplishment others “because it’s their own accountability for absolution it happen”.. You debris to admission that bodies admission altered levels of surviveability and that “modern societies” abstract change out of the baptize aback it comes to “survival of the fittest”.. in that, it’s OUR responsibility, as DECENT HUMAN BEINGS, to accomplish abiding opression and bribery don’t occur. In the “world afterwards societies”, bodies like me would appropriately abort bodies like you aback you came and accustomed to use your lies and ambidexterity to booty from me. Accepted amalgamation is declared to do that now, but, “people like you” do your damndest to tip the scales in your favor, afresh lie and barefaced and deceive to accumulate things “in your favor”.

–done.. no more.. nut-cases that don’t truely affliction about their adolescent man are the abandoned ones still acknowledging the nut-cases in office.. DESPITE all the affirmation bold how abject and biased they are. Pathetic.. and not annual my time anymore … and I’d beforehand all the abstract of the BradBlog amalgamation let this bake-apple (called Steve F) shrivle up on the vine. He’s no best alike bold to be “honest” or “sincere”. Giving timelines from 200 years ago does NOTHING to absolve drug-addicted-nut-jobs like Limbaugh actuality allotment of “his party” and actuality actually racist (well, again, racist is affectionate of a misnomer.. they aloof abhorrence all “poor people” and admission they “deserve what they get”.. it’s a broader affectionate of hate)

COMMENT #127 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/14/2005 @ 8:45 pm PT…

WOW! Apologetic I was abroad for the best allotment of the day WORKING and could not accede to EVERY SINGLE bluster put forth.

I am admiring acceptance that liberals admission absitively to “attempt” analytic thinking, acceptance it bootless miserably as best of it did not accomplish abundant faculty or abnegate any actuality that I declared previously.

Lord so abundant to accede to.

For starters, I acquisition it odd that I wrote a column citation complete FACTS…the timeline NOT from 200 years ago, but for the aftermost 200 years of facts and examples bold what racists the democrats actually are and how they use the blacks as sheep to attain votes. It was that post, FULL OF FACTS that is what actually afflicted up the agitation here, and it pleases me to no end, what facts actually do to my debaters here.

“The art of debate” By SAV (copyright 2005)#1 Alarm accession a moron.#2 Use profanity to accomplish a point.

I beggarly appear on, I never claimed to be an able debater, acceptance the allotment about authoritative liberals go crazy by citation facts I anticipate is able-bodied authentic on this cilia .

Okay MARKH said “Isn’t it amazing how Steve F developed an absent-mindedness about the time aeon 1961-1968”

Well Mark, you allegedly admission absent the adeptness to apprehend adjoin the end of the timeline of affidavit of what racist bigots the democrats are but to accord you a few believability from 1961 – 1968, let me recite them already more:

1963 Kennedy reintroduces and pushes for a civilian rights bill to assembly afterwards agitated ancestral animosity in Birmingham, AL. He is assassinated afore its passage. Admiral Johnson works with Senate Republicans and resurrects Eisenhower’s accommodation accent in the bill in acclimation to breach the Autonomous delay and acquiesce its admission in 1964 and admission of the Voting Rights Act in 1965.

MUST READ links apropos the authentic voting history of the Civilian Rights Act and Voting Rights Act. REPUBLICANS SUPPORTED IT FAR MORE THAN DEMOCRATS:

http://www.nationalcente…/NVDavisBradley1299.html

http://www.nationalcente…g/P21NVDavisGore599.html

1966 Edward W Brooke (R-MA) is the aboriginal African-American adopted to the US Senate by accepted vote.

Read them afresh Mark, no absent-mindedness on my end!

Your point basically comes bottomward to: Republicans aren’t republicans anymore and democrats aren’t democrats anymore. So are you adage that 100 years ago would you admission been a republican?

“There is alike a admission that the acumen Kennedy was asleep (especially in the South) was that he advantaged according rights for the Blacks.”

Yes there was additionally a admission that Kennedy had been assassinated by the artifice of his ancestor in accession to the admission that Johnson had him assassinated as there were abundant federal investigations on Johnson beneath Kennedy. Kennedy’s secretary Evelyn Lincoln fabricated these allege herself.

for the advanced bible (New York Times) commodity that was appear Feb 19, 1968, bang the following:LINK

For added on the assorted Kennedy assassination theories bang the following:http://en.wikipedia.org/…y_assassination_theories

So afterwards annual these, I anticipate we can say it is a FACT that there were abounding theories, but actuality the adequate advanced that you are, I am abiding that you will stick to the “theory” that [non existant] “republican racism” assassinated him. LOL.

It’s so funny, that of all the facts I accommodate here, I AM THE ONE who gets accused of spewing absurd words to action up the pot.

MARGARET G said:”Republicans got the “conservative” Southern racist vote (now declared the Christian Right)”.

Who is the religious right? Is it hicks from the south who eat grits for breakfast? Is it Pat Robertson? Is it Jerry Falwell? Bang on the NY Times athenaeum articulation provided aloft and blazon in the appellation “religious right”….I acquaint you, you will be annual for years but you will actually apprentice ALOT. Best interestingly, you will acquisition that it is not acutely defined. According to the New York Times it’s mainly any American who wants his taxes lowered. According to liberals, it’s EX-democrats, or Jerry Falwell. So afore application acceding like “Christian Right”, liberals allegation to bulk out actually what it agency afore application an amorphous byword to abutment their boneheaded arguments.

BIG DAN said:

“There is NO WAY Steve F is NOT cut/pasting this bits from somewhere…it’s too much, and it’s too fast… “

Dan I assay facts accustomed aback I allocution to people, I admission them adored on my harddrive, bags of books, old newspapers, and alike admission CD roms abounding of old archived bi-weekly accessories and columns to accretion my own angle on issues.

Of course, I went into one of those abstracts and affected and pasted from those abstracts that still provided agitation and argumentation and FACT to the allegory that liberals adulation atramentous amalgamation LOL. Alibi me if an complete 200 year timeline is not on the tip of my academician to sit actuality and freelance blazon to you as we speak.

Does the actuality that I went into “my documents” and affected and pasted anniversary point change that it’s FACT? No of beforehand not. Should I admission recited the complete New Yorks Times accessories and typed them on my own to prove to you that they are still FACTS?

Good lord!

More ablaze comments from BIGDAN:

“Above, I asked for Steve F’s comments on PNAC, WHIG, the 2004 avenue acclamation bold Kerry won, and let’s bandy in the Downing Artery memo’s for adequate measure.”

Okay “BIGDAN” apologetic (I feel like a apprentice actuality scolded who was backward with his book report).

For starters, I apperceive the archetypal advanced admission is to ask my appraisal in acclimation to somehow affix that to WHY or WHY NOT accession supports the war. Overall, I anticipate Americans arch is a abundant idea! We are the best sopisticated civilian country in the apple who consistently extends it’s assets out to bodies all over the world.

One of the abounding controversies of the PNAC was aback Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowicz wrote Clinton in 1998 and apprenticed him to abolish Saddam from adeptness – appropriately creating somekind of a conspiritorial aspect to republicans who basic to “rush” to war. Those arguments would be accomplished if democrats weren’t advancement the aforementioned affair as well! For example, GEORGE STEPHANOPOLIS brash Clinton to ASSASSINATE Saddam aloof one year above-mentioned to the Rumsfeld/Wolfowicz plea. See the afterward article:http://www.newsmax.com/a…c/2005/8/24/122804.shtml

WHIG: I anticipate it wasn’t necessary. Americans with any accuracy abnormally actuality hit afterwards 9/11, did not allegation to be convinced. Saddam Hussein fabricated a brash barefaced to the UN about WMD himself in acclimation to get added $$ for nuclear testing. Afterwards 9/11 had occured, with or afterwards WHIG, we had no best to invade! In added words, WHIG was not the acumen we went to war.

In addition, see my Stephanapolous acknowledgment above.

Lastly, one FACT is, we removed a man who bashed hundreds of bags of his own people. They additionally voted and they admission a architecture in the works.

Again, why do liberals breach in the rut of apocryphal UNPROVEN conspiracies, and if they admission to breach there, they allegation to cull their own affair into the mix as able-bodied who adept the art of cabal [aka Pelosi, Dean, or Earle].

“2004 avenue acclamation bold Kerry won”

SO what? The 2004 apparatus votes showed that Backcountry won. Aback Warren Mitofsky (co administrator of NEP) adumbrated that added Kerry voters acclimated avenue acclamation than Backcountry voters did, it was laughed off by abscessed accident democrats.

The actuality is that there are numbers and assay that abutment both abandon here. But IN ALL states with the EXCEPTION of Illinois in advertence to John Kerry alone, EVEN IN states that he won, the Avenue Acclamation for Kerry were consistently aloft than the apparatus acclamation for Kerry. Demography Backcountry out of the blueprint actually proves that point….that Kerry voters acclimated avenue polling moreso than they acclimated machines.

Another acumen why Kerry was adequate aboriginal in the day is because all the republicans were at work! We had to delay until 5pm to casting our votes! LOL. (Okay that point was a “joke” but it’s not actually invalid seeings as the democrats admission went from the affair who represented “the adamantine animate man” to apery “the man who has to work…if he must”), it’s abandoned accustomed that their voters actually saw acclamation day as a baroque acumen to breach home from assignment .

BIGDAN additionally said:

“In a cloister of law, the adjudicator would say, “Answer the question, please”….. “

Sorry I anticipation this was a cilia and not a courtroom. I additionally was not acquainted that you were a adjudicator (or a abecedary ambitious a book report). Acceptance democrats are SUPPOSED to be the affair who never lath LOL. By the way BIG DAN, abreast from ambitious book letters from me on my opinions, what FACTS admission you brought to the table?

By the way “your honor” (I will admission that you admission aloof as abundant appropriate to sit on the complete cloister as Miers does based on HER experience) could you amuse apprehend Doug and Sav’s posts and HOLD THEM IN CONTENT!? I haven’t credible such abhorrent mouthed accent aback the NTC (National Trucker’s Convention).

UNIREAL:

“He’s a shill. And he is paid to be here.”

This is the added time you fabricated this point, but no facts to agitation anything. Now, Doug and Sav, is this what you beggarly by advantageous debate? LOL You guys are killing me!

And finally, the accolade for the best complete acute “understand[ing] debate” poster-ranter of the day…..SAVANTSTER!

“Steve F.. lets attending at one PERFECT archetype of how apprenticed you are (to anyone with a academician that understands debate).”

“you should be sued for incompetence.”

“Your argumentation is pathetic.”

“You are a annoyed little man”

lol Thanx for that accepting adulation that liberals and democrats and “independents” feel that the republican affair is defective LOL. Based on those comments, I anticipate you actually were “stirred up”, annihilation pleases me added but aback you are “stirred up”, amuse try and allege with a articular context.

you said:

“Lets say, for a second, that both parties cheated “the aforementioned amount”.. here’s the “amount”.. anniversary hacks the final tabulations on the axial tabulator machines (the abstracts is kept in a credible altercation Microsoft Windows Admission Database, one of the crappiest DBs out there). The Dems drudge aboriginal to accomplish abiding their guy wins.. 10 annual later, the Rethugs drudge to accomplish their guy win.”

You additionally said this aloof moments afore cogent me my argumentation was pathetic…and consistently accompany up the appellation “fact” like your affirmation that MWAD is a abominable DB)

You gave no actuality in your bluster to prove that Republicans would admission cheated ANYMORE than democrats would. It was 8 paragraphs of aspersion and accusations. I appeal you to brush through it and adhesive ONE PROVEN FACT. One that has been agitated out with a confidence and not an ADMONISHMENT. LOL.

Secondly, you guys abounding me with questions and comments aftermost night in an accomplishment to actuate me to “wake up” to the admirable army of bribery aural my affair by throwingat me; the REPUBLICAN GOV OF KENTUCKY and the CONGRESSMAN FROM TEXAS who was chock-full for bashed driving, and afresh falsely alleging that he was bedevilled aback actually he was chock-full and arrested and the “conviction” was yet to be proven. Who detours abroad from the basic point? Actuality we were talking about a BIG ROLLER like Delay and you accompany out apocryphal “facts” about the GOVERNOR OF KENTUCKY and I researched FOR YOU and answered FOR YOU in complete detail and abyss on both cases. Based on all of this, your implications of my evasivness are unsubtantiated.

The actuality is, (as this column will do) bodies like SAV and DOUG and “BIGDAN” (lol) are actually afflicted by complete affirmation and underwhelmed with the adeptness to “keep up” with advanced agitation that exhausts them from debating logic. These posts prove exactly.

I admission not absent any comments made, I admission answered actually everything.

LOL at atomic agitation me candidly and allege me of acknowledging with “partisian answers” LOL.

SAV:

you said “Giving timelines from 200 years ago does NOTHING to justify”

Well LOL, you acutely don’t admission the abstraction of a “timeline”. It starts 200 years ago, and it ends aloof a few years ago. The complete timeline in and of itself has no age, and the believability are not ALL 200 years old!

By the way your final affirmation of Blitz Limbaugh actuality a biologic aficionado adds to your arete of analytic “staying on the subject” art of agitation that you admission yet to master.

LASTLY (perhaps the best ablaze affair you said):”–done.. no more.. “

SAV you are in over your arch and are affronted at the actuality that I was able to point out what a racist you were and how you are a magnificient role archetypal for liberals cocky aloof of the blacks. I can see you spitting and sputtering as you type….;-).

I anticipate you should actually do one affair that accession advanced has never done afore with your “done no more” brilliance: STICK to the aesthetics and cut your losses. As authentic aloft and mentioned to Dan, I am loaded with facts and articles, answers to the best ablaze advanced rants, and action to backpack them out.

(YES THIS POST IS INCREDIBLY LONG, but it was nescessary to awning BIG DAN’s (our “Justice” Dan’s) book abode requirement.

Now, appear aback with some links and facts and explanations like I admission afore the Amends / actor roles switch.

Regards!

COMMENT #128 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/14/2005 @ 9:02 pm PT…

Error:

“By the way “your honor” (I will admission that you admission aloof as abundant appropriate to sit on the complete cloister as Miers does based on HER experience) could you amuse apprehend Doug and Sav’s posts and HOLD THEM IN CONTENT!? I haven’t credible such abhorrent mouthed accent aback the NTC (National Trucker’s Convention).”

*HOLD THEM IN CONTEMPT!?

COMMENT #129 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/14/2005 @ 9:42 pm PT…

Someone needs to advise “smart Republican who looks up facts all day” how to attending up HTML so he can stop breaking the blog..

Oh, and Brad, can you annul the curve that this idiot can’t bulk out how to link? For accession with “clients” and “information gatherer”, he abiding is sloppy..

COMMENT #130 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/14/2005 @ 10:09 pm PT…

Savanster, I am an accountant, not a web designer.I am an information, annual annual GEEK. Web designing is a new interest, I never said I was adequate at it, or at blogging for that matter. My affliction for breaking the blog. .

COMMENT #131 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/14/2005 @ 10:50 pm PT…

Steve..

does this beggarly you are accommodating to go aback to debating and not accumulate pointing out commentaries and alarm that “your justifications”?

I had a baby column that was in curve and it got ate.. but, in that, I acicular out that aback I showed your abridgement of analytic position (both cheat, it’s a wash), you responded by pointing out my commentary.. never actually discussing the falicy I showed.. That’s the affectionate of affair that actually discredits any of your arguments.. Sure, the agitation would go bigger afterwards it [comentary], but, as you point out, you anxiously set out to annual strife.. and as has been acicular out time and again, that’s a admired pasttime of Repubs with no solid position.

The actuality that you are an accountant.. authoritative a -living- off the flush by acclimation their books and authoritative abiding they can burry as abundant of their money to anticipate advantageous taxes on it.. additionally goes a continued way to actualization breadth your action is. If government chock-full accouterment to the rich, you’d admission to acquisition a complete job

Also, aback you are an accountant, I’m audacious you actually admission your beforehand to accommodate bamboozlement aback you talked about your accepting to pay the “full 15% for amusing security”.. I wan’t gonna accompany it up because I wasn’t abiding if you were acquainted of all the loopholes, writeoffs, and central tricks of business.. as an accountant, you bigger That means, you apperceive FULL WELL that you get a LOT added in allowances than the “average employee” -despite- your advantageous your own insurance, taxes, etc. And, you -also- apperceive you can get it all accounting off (either by yourself as “self employed” or from your “firm”.. either way). I”m not a “tax genious”, but I am acquainted of the bags of loopholes congenital into the law for -just that reason-.. I don’t get to abode off -any- of my Amusing Aegis tax, but you get to abode off that 1/2 that comes from “the company”, don’t you? In the end, we’re all advantageous the same. You pay the insurance, but get to abode that off (well, pre-tax accession anyway, I’d guess).. And, you get paid a lot added than an accountant animate for “someone else”.. And, aback the “firm” buys a car that is to be acclimated as a “company car” by staff, that car is a abode off to the company, and the annual bulk is commodity you don’t admission to pay “from your pocket”.. your bacon is now annual MORE aback you admission LESS in annual bills.. Some of us actually admission the “perks” of actuality in business “for your self”, baby ancestors businesses are the same.. It makes -sense- that -you- are a republican, aback their mantra is “let businesses admission a chance!”.. yet, that aforementioned abstraction should not administer to “corperate amercia” because that’s breadth the ample calibration bribery comes in.. not baby businesses like yours. And, personally, I’m all FOR baby businesses actuality able to abode off all kinds of stuff.. let YOU admission those perks.. why? YOU aren’t laying off bags to get millions in bonuses.. The mentality of baby business is actually altered than that of big business. I”m all FOR auspicious baby business, and all FOR massive acclimation of ample businesses..

Now, let’s attending at you and your “family firm”.. You acutely should be able to admission that “most bodies aren’t acute enough” to be accountants.. right? I mean, “average intelligence” isn’t abundant (typically) to be able to booty affliction of all the tax cipher actuality (which is -also- allotment of why our tax cipher should be scrapped and redone.. it violates the basal tennets of “law”, in that the boilerplate actuality should be able to admission them). Any idiot can “run their own business”, but “average” amalgamation allegation to appoint accountants.. right? This brings up the complete “other” ancillary of the apple here.. You accumulate aggravating to say I’m “racist”, but I accumulate adage that “people allegation help”, and “people aren’t all created equal”.. that has annihilation to do with race.. annihilation at all. Affimative Action -is- about race, but -not- because minorities are “inferrior”, but because “business owners admission credible to be racist in the past” (and present, in a lot of places). I’ve heard some bad things about Acknowledging Action, but I’ve heard abundant things about it too.. in “principle”, I anticipate it’s a abundant idea.. it’s a way to force non-discrimination to a certian degree.. and it is NOT adage “those poor brainless minorities.. can’t do it on their own.. let’s accord them a leg up”.. it’s adage “those acquisitive racist assholes animate aloft businesses allegation to abutment the complete country, not aloof white folks”.. Racisim and Sexism are complete abundant animate in this country, and things like Acknowledging Action are meant to try and “break that down”.. annihilation added (at least, that’s my booty on it).

Oh, and again, for the timeline.. whether it be “from” 200 years ago, or “spanning 200 years”, it’s irrelivant. I don’t affliction about “who was accomplishing what” 200, 100, 50, or alike 30 years ago.. all I affliction about is, what is out there TODAY.. Today, Limbauh, Hannity, O’Rielly, and your boy Bennitt acquire to be affectionate of racist.. The “talking active of the Republican party” all acquire to be racist.. really.. Which means, it makes the Republican affair attending racist.. TODAY.. Amuse leave the history assignment in the past, it has no abode on TODAY. And, again, I don’t like Dems complete abundant either.

Here’s my basal booty on the 2 parties.. both admission corruption.. both admission freaks and extremists.. but as “general beforehand [today]”, this is what I see:

Democrats : affliction about “people”. Appetite ‘everyone’ to admission a appropriate affection of life. Admission there are differences in people’s abilities, while we all admission the aforementioned rights, we don’t all admission the aforementioned “ability”.. therefore, it’s encumbant on us, the acute and able ones, to accomplish abiding EVERYONE has a appropriate life.

Republicans : affliction about “money”. Adumbrate abaft the annual “everyone has the aforementioned ‘chances’, if they don’t booty advantage of it, that’s their problem”. Abstain the -fact- that bodies admission altered intelligence levels, and altered educations annual altered outlooks on things. That is, though, until it’s time to body schools.. afresh the “rich folks” get calm and body adequate schools, appoint adequate teachers, and admission adequate chic sizes “for their kids”, and acquaint the “poor people” to “fend for themselves”. They INTENTIONALLY canyon laws that let them accumulate more, and accomplish “others” pay more. They canyon laws that admonition the “richest” get “richer”, and accomplish it harder and harder for “average folks” to get by. They canyon laws that abort the ambiance (and people, for that matter) for PROFITS..

Basically, in “principle”, Dems affliction about and assure people, Repubs affliction about and assure money. That’s my booty on the parties “today”

COMMENT #132 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/14/2005 @ 11:05 pm PT…

Oh.. and one added thing.. With absorption to the avenue acclamation and your animadversion about “the machines said Backcountry won”.. That altercation is actively awry for abounding reasons.. but, as a Software Engineer, let me explain why your affirmation is irrelivant.

The cipher acclimated to calculation the votes is hidden, seceret.. Aback you admission a computer affairs that “adds”, it will add the aforementioned way every time (unless there’s some actually bad bugs). But, what it’s abacus can be altered than what “was put in”.. that is, you vote for X.. the apparatus aliment it as Y and adds one to Y. You pushed X.. at the end, X has 0, Y has 1.. every time you say “count”, it will admission the same, but WRONG, count.

The machines we’re talking about admission NO cardboard trail. So, if the cipher “flipped votes”, there’s NO way to prove it (and autograph the cipher would be cool easy.. it could be done in any one of hundreds of ways). You say “the apparatus said Backcountry won”, but how do we apperceive that Kerry wasn’t apprenticed a lot added than Bush? we admission -no- way to know.. We admission to assurance “the machine”? and the bodies who paid a LOT of money to Republicans, but not Dems? It’s “obvious” breadth they appetite the votes to go, and we admission no way to apperceive if they “rigged it” or not.

Then, we admission the -second- huge issue. The “data” is transmitted over the internet in credible altercation and acreage on the “centeral tabulator” machines. The abstracts is STORED in credible text, in a Microsoft Admission database.. one of the WORST in the world. All accession has to do is.. accessible that file, see who won.. if they don’t like it, FLIP THE NAMES so their guy is in the “winner’s column”.. It’s been PROVED that a CHIMP can drudge those voting machines and annul the admission log, no record. The Centeral Tabulators are on abashed hosts, and ONE actuality “inside” can rig the complete election.. and we admission NO way to “find out what happened”.

So, aback the avenue polls.. acclimated about the world.. and trusted about the world, and by our OWN government, says “something isn’t right”.. we shouldn’t aloof abstain it.

Even afterwards all the “evidence” of problems with aloof the machines, there are a lot added problems in Ohio and added states. Your abstinent it doesn’t change the facts, and, as was acquaint aloft (which you convienently abhorred discussing further), aesthetics ARE actuality handed out in Ohio for electoin fraud.. -that- should affair alike you.. what if abutting acclamation the Dems get in and drudge it abroad from a complete able-bodied able Repub? that wouldn’t bother you? See, best of us -here- appetite -fully appear elections-.. for BOTH sides, and for OUR protection.. not the aegis of “the dems” or whatever. It amazes me how so abounding Repubs debris to see that and accumulate aggravating to circuit it to a Dem/Repub issue. This is an American Capitalism issue, annihilation more. Any conversations about annihilation abroad (dealing with elections) is authentic distraction.

COMMENT #133 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/14/2005 @ 11:06 pm PT…

I disagree and WILL explain to you tomorrow apropos all of the tax stuff.

As able-bodied as the abstract of the arguments.

I will end (though this is not aural the rules of my “hating republican party”) that I do admission in your appropriate to admission in what you admission in. I admission accompany I agitation with all the time (Hell Ann Coulter is accompany with Bill Maher).

For some reason, (though im abundantly annoyed from autograph and aggravating to bulk out Frontpage2003) this aftermost column of castigation (#131) was my admired of yours.

As abundant as off clue you anticipate I am, or as off clue as I anticipate you are, I admission you are amorous about it.

Off to watch some abhorrence movies with my brothers now and giving my academician a abstract for a while.

Goodnight, and I’ll acknowledgment you ancient tomorrow.

COMMENT #134 [Permalink]… big dan said on 10/15/2005 @ 7:07 am PT…

I’m in a hurry, aloof blockage in.

Did Steve F acknowledgment my questions about the PNAC, WHIG, 2004 avenue polls, and/or Downing Artery memos yet?

COMMENT #135 [Permalink]… big dan said on 10/15/2005 @ 7:09 am PT…

…or did he aloof cut/paste some behemothic propoganda SHITSTORM again???

COMMENT #136 [Permalink]… unirealist said on 10/15/2005 @ 7:10 am PT…

Sorry, buddy. I still anticipate you’re a shill. It’s too adamantine to admission that anyone with your credible intelligence could admission what you allegedly do.

Occam’s Razor applies.

But you do admission a accepted company, right? So, here’s your adventitious for some chargeless advertising. Accompaniment your name, address, and blast # to prove you are what you say you are.

COMMENT #137 [Permalink]… merifour said on 10/15/2005 @ 8:50 am PT…

#132 Savanster, accede you for acknowledgment the voting box affair in acceding I can understand. I was audition about the atramentous box, no cardboard trail, ‘alert’ afore the ’04 election. I knew the experts talking about it were appropriate and the vote was action to be chic (Ohio-Deibold affiance of a win to bush). I did not admission the mechanics abaft it. The documentary I watched on rove showed how he went to a allowance in the WH and showed him and several others ‘working their computers’, this afterwards the avenue acclamation were bold backcountry was accident all over.If I admission you correctly, the acclamation could admission been tampered with appropriate in the WH. What a complete abode to do it, safe, secure, with the ‘architect’ architecting. M4

P.S.I admission Conyer’s book but haven’t apprehend it yet, I am abiding I will get added acumen there.

COMMENT #138 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/15/2005 @ 9:10 am PT…

SAV:

Tax issues: Aback cocky animate individuals pay 15.3%, it is authentic that 10% of their cocky application tax (the 15.3%) is an acclimation in the favor of the aborigine afore chargeless the AGI (Adjusted Gross Income) which is afresh burdened at whatever the bracket the abandoned avalanche in (yes the brackets are academy for academy assets individuals). So let’s say that the all-embracing accumulation (gross assets bare accepted deductions) is $100,000. The cocky application tax abandoned $15,300.00 is afresh assorted by 10% 1,530.00 which is deducted from the AGI to actuate taxable income. That 1,530.00 does not appear abreast the bisected which of beforehand is 7,650.00 as you described. Yes there IS tax “relief” and allowances for IRA contributions and cocky animate bloom allowance premiums. BUT accepting a slight tax anchor adjoin the abounding costs of the insurance, and the 7,650.00 is a bit of a difference.

As I said though, I’m not “complaining”, persay, but I am additionally acquainted of the admeasurement of what I admission put into the system. We’ve put in plenty. IF aggregate backward the aforementioned now, and never changed, I’d be fine. The IRS has aloft the breadth bulk to 48.5 cents per mile for a aloft auto acknowledgment due to gas prices.

When a brace comes in to get their taxes able and they are lying and adage they are affiliated in acclimation for the mother to book single/HOH in acclimation to booty advantage of the EIC (Earned Assets Credit) and walks out with 6,000.00 refunds (which is actually about 50% of what her W2 reads for gross accomplishment in total) I get a little put off. In addition, we are accustomed to “ask” but cannot columnist to accomplish abiding they are actuality honest.

Last year, allotment of Bush’s annual was to accord $500,000,000 to the Internal Acquirement Service’s appropriate assay department. Aback afresh of $40,000,000,000 in biased EIC has been recovered. Afore that bill was passed, the Internal Acquirement Service audited actually who Americans appetite them to audit, RICH bodies to accomplish abiding they weren’t cheating. Now that they admission added assets in the invesitagtion department, added allotment are actuality examined. The tax years 2000, 2001, and 2002’s examinations of the “rich” 1040’s and the accretion amounts paled in comparrison to what has been put alternating in 2003 and 2004 in baseborn EIC.

These are the poor bodies who are actuality discriminated against. They had gotten abroad with this for years. There are FAR too abounding accompaniment and federalized programs that baby to audible mothers, accompaniment and federalized daycares (I admission 3 LARGE daycares that are 100% accompaniment funded, and amid the 3, 2 of them are ALSO circuitous in the federalized Advantageous Alpha affairs in which 25% of their payroll, aliment expenses, rent, utilities, etc are REIMBURSED EVEN AFTER the basic assets came from the state).

It is shams like this that admission gotten out of hand. As Ann Coulter started her book, “How To Allocution to a Advanced – If you Must”, she said that historically, all it took for Americans to catechumen to abnegation was to move out of their parent’s homes, get a job, and pay taxes. Watching how the government has catered to the “poor” victims who are application these government allowances to adore action NOW rather than use them productively and body commodity defended so that they can adore action FOREVER and in about-face alpha giving aback to the system. THAT’s the abstraction and it’s never followed through upon.

SAV this money comes out of your pocket, my pocket, and EVERY added taxpayer’s pockets endlessly. These are aloof a few things off the top of my head. I’m abiding BIGDAN will appeal accession book abode on economics. LOL, so I’m abiding that’s coming.

Quickly on your voting artifice theories. It seems that you use the appellation “flawed”. DO you anticipate that awry equals fraud? Or do you anticipate the flaws are acclimated at the Republican’s advantage, and if so, why haven’t the Democrats adopted the aesthetics of “if you can’t exhausted em, accompany em”, bold they admission been 100% bribery chargeless aback it comes to bribery (I agnosticism it LOL). Aloof for acceptance though. Also, how do you anticipate that votes should be casting in acclimation to accomplish yoou blessed and secure.

One affair I did point out, that I am not abiding if you best up on or not, is EVEN attractive at the States that Kerry won (fair and aboveboard that is) and comparring the avenue polling to the apparatus polling. The avenue polling (even aback he won) abstracts were essentially academy for Kerry than Bush. (With the barring of Illinois breadth they were about the aforementioned (my fail old hometown of Chicago).

Basically “Kerry Exit” beats “Kerry Machine”.”Bush Machine” beats “Bush Exit”.

I acquire abutting acclamation if we bandy out the machines and use abandoned avenue pollings that we could assuredly admission 4 years of admiral afterwards the adumbration of artifice on bealf of the President. Unless we all vote by mail like they do in Oregon.

BIGDAN if you absent my column that took up bisected the folio in advertence to your demands of a book report, afresh I am sorry. You posts are abbreviate and accusatory and you haven’t said abundant added than “What did Steve do, what did Steve do?”.

UNIREALIST I am not announcement my aggregation on here, LOL. It’s a baby accounting abutting in the south suburbs of Chicago that casework 2.500 claimed tax allotment a year and about 100 baby corporations. That’s it. Baby potatoes but prominent. We’re thankful. Business can consistently go either way.

COMMENT #139 [Permalink]… davek said on 10/15/2005 @ 9:54 am PT…

Steve F – I still apprehend annihilation from you on the abeyant for hacking the vote, accustomed all that has now been credible about the vulnerability of the system. This allegedly does not anguish you in the slightest. You are accessible absent and accommodating to abide in the gray areas aback it comes to Miers yet stick to your accoutrements that aggregate is aloof hunky adequate on acclamation artifice it seems. By the way, the accomplished acclamation arrangement we accomplished to Germany and is still acclimated goes like this: cardboard ballots are used, the night of the acclamation the after-effects of the avenue acclamation are appear as the “provisional” winners until accepted by the counting of ballots by anxiously watched workers (takes a brace days). Aggregate is retained in case a blab or assay is necessary. That would be my acknowledgment to your catechism on what array of arrangement we should use.

COMMENT #140 [Permalink]… davek said on 10/15/2005 @ 10:03 am PT…

…by the way I animate in Oregon and the vote by mail is abundant in abounding agency but the blueprint machines are made, programmed, maintained by GOP-companies including Diebold.

See votersunite.org for a nice bipartisan annual of some of this.

As one who watches dollars and cents in my own business and hates advantageous added taxes than I admission to, there is a adequate precident actuality set appropriate now by a complete adequate apostle in Washington which attempts to redress the cyberbanking voting botheration as it played out in that accompaniment and which would if acknowledged pay the citizens aback for all the money they spent on this adorned arrangement no one can admission but the techies that assignment for the company. http://www.votersunite.org/info/lehtolawsuit.asp

Simple is better.

COMMENT #141 [Permalink]… texaslady said on 10/15/2005 @ 10:14 am PT…

Davek – Aloof apprehend about a arrangement that is cyberbanking as able-bodied as paper. The aborigine is able to assay his cyberbanking vote adjoin the cardboard receipt. Some what like the ATM. I would like a cancellation as able-bodied aback already you bead your acclamation its gone.

Also, what is amiss with acceptance best than one day to vote. We had a anniversary actuality and it was great.No alibi of continued curve or not abundant machines.

And lets admission accession from both parties at all times in the voting and counting area. Actually adamantine to buy off so abounding people.

The accomplished action from best to acclamation allegation an overhaul. Balloon the accompaniment to accompaniment two year drive. Absolute the beforehand money, anniversary affair can abandoned blot the aforementioned amount, abandoned admission televised debates. And best important get rid of the Electoral College. So abounding feel why vote if the EC can annul your vote. One actuality one vote.

We can blot bags of money for pork projects lets blot money for a better, cleaner acclamation process.Alot added important than a arch in Alaska for a baby community.

COMMENT #142 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/15/2005 @ 11:36 am PT…

DaveK I wrote endlessly on my believability on the voting frauds, avenue pollings, apparatus pollings and yes alike Oregon.

I accede what you are saying, I actually do! BUT for you to admission that it’s all a “GOP” bribery movement is as acute as me adage that all liberals whine. (Wait is that extreme? LOL Kidding!)

Let’s let it abstract here: You and I can accede that there are abject individuals, conspiritorial individuals, and individuals with ethical shortcomings branch both parties.

If the “stupid” republicans in their “alleged” adventurous of artifice and bribery are advancing out on top anniversary election, they why accepting the appropriately abject from the larboard accustomed assault them at their own games, and what does this actually say about the democrats and their abilities to dispense adopted behavior and accomplish adequate decisions for our country.

Howard Dean in May on Accommodated the Columnist started out with his aspersion of Tom Delay by advertence that Tom Delay was not an “ethical person” and that he affliction not be branch Congress. Afresh 20 annual later, Tim Russert asked him why he attacked Blitz Limbaugh as a “drug addict” abnormally aback a man accepted as “Dr. Dean” knows that Rush’s action was “medical”. Dean replied by adage that it was because Blitz had consistently fabricated fun of Mr & Mrs Clinton and added democrats on their “ethical shortcomings”. …..here’s the kicker…. he assured this anticipation by adage “we all admission ethical shortcomings, we affliction not be lectured on our ethical shortcomings”. HELLO…just 15 annual beforehand in the broadcast, Howard was aggravating to altercate Americans that Delay was not an “ethical” person. The complete acme of hypocrisy.

My point is: if there are actually “ethical shortcomings” on both abandon of the political fences, afresh it is absurd for the elections be to controlled carefully by republicans uunless democrats are aloof credible stupid.

TEXASLADY: fabricated a abundant point:”And lets admission accession from both parties at all times in the voting and counting area. Actually adamantine to buy off so abounding people.”

Okay fine….I agree….let’s do it in 2008. Accomplish abiding this doesn’t appear afresh if you admission IN YOUR HEART (which I STILL do not) that it’s the ONLY acumen why Backcountry is our President.

I’d like to see the democrats ascendancy the tallies and counting all the way bottomward to the end, because aback Condoleezza Rice wins in a landslide, burying Hillary, I don’t appetite to apprehend this blazon of actuality afresh for accession 4-8 years.

We allegation to move on from conspiracies on how anybody got their positions in government and assignment calm as a country to win in Iraq.

By the way, anybody apprehend of the success for the architecture assembly in Iraq today?

COMMENT #143 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/15/2005 @ 11:50 am PT…

DaveK I wrote endlessly on my believability on the voting frauds, avenue pollings, apparatus pollings and yes alike Oregon.

I accede what you are saying, I actually do! BUT for you to admission that it’s all a “GOP” bribery movement is as acute as me adage that all liberals whine. (Wait is that extreme? LOL Kidding!)

Let’s let it abstract here: You and I can accede that there are abject individuals, conspiritorial individuals, and individuals with ethical shortcomings branch both parties.

If the “stupid” republicans in their “alleged” adventurous of artifice and bribery are advancing out on top anniversary election, they why accepting the appropriately abject from the larboard accustomed assault them at their own games, and what does this actually say about the democrats and their abilities to dispense adopted behavior and accomplish adequate decisions for our country.

Howard Dean in May on Accommodated the Columnist started out with his aspersion of Tom Delay by advertence that Tom Delay was not an “ethical person” and that he affliction not be branch Congress. Afresh 20 annual later, Tim Russert asked him why he attacked Blitz Limbaugh as a “drug addict” abnormally aback a man accepted as “Dr. Dean” knows that Rush’s action was “medical”. Dean replied by adage that it was because Blitz had consistently fabricated fun of Mr & Mrs Clinton and added democrats on their “ethical shortcomings”. …..here’s the kicker…. he assured this anticipation by adage “we all admission ethical shortcomings, we affliction not be lectured on our ethical shortcomings”. HELLO…just 15 annual beforehand in the broadcast, Howard was aggravating to altercate Americans that Delay was not an “ethical” person. The complete acme of hypocrisy.

My point is: if there are actually “ethical shortcomings” on both abandon of the political fences, afresh it is absurd for the elections be to controlled carefully by republicans uunless democrats are aloof credible stupid.

TEXASLADY: fabricated a abundant point:”And lets admission accession from both parties at all times in the voting and counting area. Actually adamantine to buy off so abounding people.”

Okay fine….I agree….let’s do it in 2008. Accomplish abiding this doesn’t appear afresh if you admission IN YOUR HEART (which I STILL do not) that it’s the ONLY acumen why Backcountry is our President.

I’d like to see the democrats ascendancy the tallies and counting all the way bottomward to the end, because aback Condoleezza Rice wins in a landslide, burying Hillary, I don’t appetite to apprehend this blazon of actuality afresh for accession 4-8 years.

We allegation to move on from conspiracies on how anybody got their positions in government and assignment calm as a country to win in Iraq.

By the way, anybody apprehend of the success for the architecture assembly in Iraq today?

COMMENT #144 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/15/2005 @ 11:56 am PT…

DaveK I wrote endlessly on my believability on the voting frauds, avenue pollings, apparatus pollings and yes alike Oregon.

I accede what you are saying, I actually do! BUT for you to admission that it’s all a “GOP” bribery movement is as acute as me adage that all liberals whine. (Wait is that extreme? LOL Kidding!)

Let’s let it abstract here: You and I can accede that there are abject individuals, conspiritorial individuals, and individuals with ethical shortcomings branch both parties.

If the “stupid” republicans in their “alleged” adventurous of artifice and bribery are advancing out on top anniversary election, they why accepting the appropriately abject from the larboard accustomed assault them at their own games, and what does this actually say about the democrats and their abilities to dispense adopted behavior and accomplish adequate decisions for our country.

Howard Dean in May on Accommodated the Columnist started out with his aspersion of Tom Delay by advertence that Tom Delay was not an “ethical person” and that he affliction not be branch Congress. Afresh 20 annual later, Tim Russert asked him why he attacked Blitz Limbaugh as a “drug addict” abnormally aback a man accepted as “Dr. Dean” knows that Rush’s action was “medical”. Dean replied by adage that it was because Blitz had consistently fabricated fun of Mr & Mrs Clinton and added democrats on their “ethical shortcomings”. …..here’s the kicker…. he assured this anticipation by adage “we all admission ethical shortcomings, we affliction not be lectured on our ethical shortcomings”. HELLO…just 15 annual beforehand in the broadcast, Howard was aggravating to altercate Americans that Delay was not an “ethical” person. The complete acme of hypocrisy.

My point is: if there are actually “ethical shortcomings” on both abandon of the political fences, afresh it is absurd for the elections be to controlled carefully by republicans uunless democrats are aloof credible stupid.

TEXASLADY: fabricated a abundant point:”And lets admission accession from both parties at all times in the voting and counting area. Actually adamantine to buy off so abounding people.”

Okay fine….I agree….let’s do it in 2008. Accomplish abiding this doesn’t appear afresh if you admission IN YOUR HEART (which I STILL do not) that it’s the ONLY acumen why Backcountry is our President.

I’d like to see the democrats ascendancy the tallies and counting all the way bottomward to the end, because aback Condoleezza Rice wins in a landslide, burying Hillary, I don’t appetite to apprehend this blazon of actuality afresh for accession 4-8 years.

We allegation to move on from conspiracies on how anybody got their positions in government and assignment calm as a country to win in Iraq.

By the way, anybody apprehend of the success for the architecture assembly in Iraq today?

COMMENT #145 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/15/2005 @ 11:59 am PT…

Sorry about the assorted postings….this abandoned happens aback my browser sticks.

COMMENT #146 [Permalink]… Dredd said on 10/15/2005 @ 12:00 pm PT…

Steve F you can apprehend about the bottomless voting apparatus arrangement from a bi-partisan alignment BLACK BOX voting (link here).

One of the founders, a republican, has acquaint actuality in the past, and so has the added founder, a democrat or liberal. I can’t remember. Can’t bethink is Jim is a bourgeois republican or not either.

Anyway, they admission authentic over and over, in advanced of congress, in advanced of acclamation officials, and in advanced of the apple how complete childishly accessible it is to drudge into the Diebold machines (a republican endemic aggregation that is alpha to apart lawsuits and admission their banal abatement seriously). One top official of the Diebold company, a ample contributor to RNC said he was committed to seeing backcountry win in ’04.

There are added republican and conservatives (a la George Will) who accede that it is actually adequate that big time artifice happened in the aftermost two elections. Aborigine apparatus artifice due to hackable voting machines. And they say it is best adequate that republican interests did the hacking.

This is old annual to us here, who admission been discussing it for years.

article, science of avenue polls, by several Ph.d scientistschapter of a book you should additionally read.

Matter of fact, apprehend the accomplished book. It believability out that felons who were accomplishing time for computer artifice were assassin while still accomplishing time to abode the software for voting machines that are acclimated by millions of folk.

COMMENT #147 [Permalink]… davek said on 10/15/2005 @ 12:06 pm PT…

Steve F – I anticipation this was obvious: its the GOP admission to the adeptness through these voting apparatus affairs put in abode over the years that makes it unethically unbalanced. Its not a “gee dems are bad too” its what is accident appropriate now and has in the accomplished two elections. How do you explain the about alien Chuck Hagel adequate over a accepted democrat? He owns the aggregation that fabricated the voting software thats how! Can we prove it? Allegedly not. By the way, there is affluence of time to fix this for the 2006 midterms aback we bang your butts out of a majority position (heh, heh…) in at atomic one abode of congress….this allegation be a fair and cellophane election!

One final (OK allegedly not) chat on acclamation artifice and the acumen I anticipate a cerebration actuality like yourself has so abundant agitation seeing this huge affair is the commodity “Psychological Resistence to Adverse Acclamation Fraud” accomplished work, this gal is not some toucy feely shrink, admission me – http://www.commonwealins…ns/SilenceoftheScams.htm

I abstruse a lot annual it…. Iraq a bit later

COMMENT #148 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/15/2005 @ 4:33 pm PT…

“When a brace comes in to get their taxes able and they are lying and adage they are affiliated in acclimation for the mother to book single/HOH in acclimation to booty advantage of the EIC (Earned Assets Credit) and walks out with 6,000.00 refunds (which is actually about 50% of what her W2 reads for gross accomplishment in total) I get a little put off. In addition, we are accustomed to “ask” but cannot columnist to accomplish abiding they are actuality honest.”

Lemme get this straight.. so, 6k in refunds.. their complete accomplishment were 12k for the year.. and you make, what? $120,000 or MORE, PLUS perks? See, I admission MORE botheration with YOU accepting breach on your gas aback you don’t allegation it than I do no those bodies cheating EIC aback they allegation that money to LIVE.. They aren’t “prospering”, which is what Repubs like to try and imply. I’ve -lived- in poverty.. I’ve -lived- in the streets for 2 years.. -I KNOW- what a bulk of applesauce 12k is in today’s society.. I’m appealing abiding you piss abroad that abundant in allowances from your company.. and YOU get to abode it all off.. get it?

“Quickly on your voting artifice theories. It seems that you use the appellation “flawed”. DO you anticipate that awry equals fraud? Or do you anticipate the flaws are acclimated at the Republican’s advantage, and if so, why haven’t the Democrats adopted the aesthetics of “if you can’t exhausted em, accompany em”, bold they admission been 100% bribery chargeless aback it comes to bribery (I agnosticism it LOL). Aloof for acceptance though. Also, how do you anticipate that votes should be casting in acclimation to accomplish yoou blessed and secure.”

Well, not abiding what you are talking about with “flaw” adjoin “fraud”.. Aback I said “your argumentation was flawed” was to actualization that the cessation you came to was actually INcorrect. NOT likely. and based on BAD thinking.. afresh I showed you “why”.. and that was aloof “one” example.

How do -I- anticipate votes should be cast? In person. On cardboard (or machines that book out a cardboard copy, or 2, one for you with a consecutive cardinal on it, and one for the auditors, with a analogous serial). Do abroad with “remote” voting, that’s bullshit. If you’re in the aggressive and over seas, SET UP A POLLING STATION there, JUST like here.. afresh you don’t admission “dead bodies voting”.. Appetite to admonition accomplish abiding you don’t “double vote” (not that it’s anywhere abreast as austere a botheration as acclamation fraud)? Stamp people’s calmly with a semi-permanant ink.. or dye.. or what haveyou. Afresh the “average joe” won’t be cheating, abandoned the parties with the assets to acquisition agency to abolish the dye (or, hell, booty a bolus with a tracer compound.. you ablaze up on scans and takes 24 hours to breach down.. or longer.. or whatever). Though, I -seriously- agnosticism all the blubbering from the appropriate about “dead bodies voting” is an issue.

Then.. if the avenue acclamation are off afterwards the “machine counting”, YOU DO A HAND COUNT OF THE PAPER.. period, end of story.. AND, do a accidental sampling (based on statistical models that will work) and VERIFY the machines counted to bout the paper… in at LEAST, I’d guess, 25% of all apparatus precincts. Lots of work? yeah.. but it’s needed.. isn’t it.. And, no added “terror scares” breadth they accompany to ballotts into broke rooms.. NEVER.. EVER.. EVER.. -all- counting MUST be done in public.. period.. no excuse..

“Basically “Kerry Exit” beats “Kerry Machine”.”Bush Machine” beats “Bush Exit”.”

Well, not abiding breadth you got that from.. Aggregate I’ve credible showed that “where there were machines, we had austere problems”.. Your added bit about “shy backcountry polling” was debunked a continued time ago.. and I’ve never heard that the acclamation were “way off” alike in “Kerry” districts.. but you apperceive what? they able-bodied could admission been, and WE WILL NEVER KNOW, because there is NO WAY TO VERIFY ANY OF IT.. get it?

So to Elections.. the catechism was airish to you, and you danced and danced and discharge at Dems.. but never answered.. Do YOU appetite ACCOUNTABLE elections breadth the after-effects can be VERIFIED? If so, “photo-ID” is not what you appetite to focus on (not now, anyway).. accepting printers and about arresting antecedent cipher on thsoe machines is what you want.

COMMENT #149 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/15/2005 @ 4:40 pm PT…

“I accede what you are saying, I actually do! BUT for you to admission that it’s all a “GOP” bribery movement is as acute as me adage that all liberals whine. (Wait is that extreme? LOL Kidding!)

Let’s let it abstract here: You and I can accede that there are abject individuals, conspiritorial individuals, and individuals with ethical shortcomings branch both parties.”

And the accuracy shall set you free.. as continued as YOUR guys are cheating better, the arrangement is OK.. as anon as the “other guys” barefaced better, you’ll be screaming.. Amzing..

COMMENT #150 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/15/2005 @ 4:43 pm PT…

“If the “stupid” republicans in their “alleged” adventurous of artifice and bribery are advancing out on top anniversary election, they why accepting the appropriately abject from the larboard accustomed assault them at their own games, and what does this actually say about the democrats and their abilities to dispense adopted behavior and accomplish adequate decisions for our country.”

LMFAO.. OMFG.. I hadn’t apprehend that afore my aftermost post.. NICE ARGUMENT.. “cheat better”.. And you admiration why “most able people” abhor the affectionate of egoistic elitists who “still abutment Bush”? Beforehand you do! He’s giving TONS OF MONEY TO CORPERATIONS, and authoritative abiding those bribery bedraggled poor bodies can’t eat! WOOO..

Dude.. you SO blew it.. you had a adventitious to altercate me you weren’t actually allotment of the problem.. YOU ARE..

WOW..

COMMENT #151 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/15/2005 @ 4:46 pm PT…

“. . .started out with his aspersion of Tom Delay by advertence that Tom Delay was not an “ethical person””

Here we go AGAIN.. He was ADMONISHED 3 times for ETHICAL VIOLATIONS.. get it? I apperceive that aloof Coulter wants to breach hairs about “admonished” and “censured”, but I looked them both up.. assumption what? One is “strong”, one is “mild”, NEITHER agency annihilation abroad different.. that MEANS, your shit-bag DeLay IS NOT ETHICAL.. THEREFORE.. no aspersion

(oh.. and I’m not spitting and sputtering like the added day.. I’ve accustomed up achievement of extensive any affectionate of acumen with you.. you’re a hatemonger, warmonger, elitist, and accession that aloof doesn’t affliction about “this country”, you abandoned affliction about what you can blot out of it.. You are a abasement )

COMMENT #152 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/15/2005 @ 4:55 pm PT…

“By the way, anybody apprehend of the success for the architecture assembly in Iraq today? “

Yeah.. the Sunni (you know, the 20% that controlled the country before?) are aggravating to shoot it down. The leaders all got calm aftermost anniversary and “agreed to let the Sunnis try to change the architecture later”, but with no garuntees.. Hmm.. I aroma a war a brewin!

Not to mention, about a ages ago, I apprehend an commodity breadth Iraqis were actuality polled.. Kurds and Shiites are not admiring with the abstract either.. seems they don’t actually appetite the federalism either.. and the bodies don’t like all the accoutrement that let FORIEGN interests OWN IRAQ .. the aboriginal drafts had all the oil rights, business rights, etc. to be wholely endemic by Iraqi citizens.. The U.S. meddled abaft broke doors for months, but they assuredly admission the appropriate to shaft the Iraqis now too!

I’ll delay and see what the after-effects are.. though, we’ve already heard one abode of how the acting government was accouterment the action to “ensure the contitution was anesthetized no bulk what”, and that plan got scrapped.. admiration if they put in a new one? Diebold machines, perhaps?

COMMENT #153 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/15/2005 @ 5:58 pm PT…

SAVANSTER:No, theyre complete allowance is not 12K. Its aloof 12K for the ancestor bold to be filing HOH aback actually they are affiliated and aback their collective incomes calm exhausted the EIC threshold.

You bootless to acknowledgment how Bush’s added 500,000,000 to the IRS appropriate investigating aggregation that 40,000,000,000 in baseborn EIC was recovered far afore the “rich people” audits that liberals adulation to justify.

Secondly, your beforehand to actualize facts, alter facts, and re-arrange them are declining big time. For starters, I do not admission a gas calendar that is aggregation paid for. Secondly, the 48.5 cents per mile breadth rate, which i use as my auto acknowledgment is my deduction…as adjoin to demography absolute ammunition expenses, oil changes, tires, depreciaton of my vehicle, etc…(you admission a best at which adjustment you use). I told you the adamantine allotment of actuality self-employed (as I reiterate I do not mind, aloof abdicate aggravating to get added out of me) like bloom allowance (without Hillary), cocky application tax, no federalized overtime for aloft 40 hours (this anniversary Im up to 59).

Your counterarguments are – I HAVE ALL OF THESE PERKS. Which is a lie. Aboriginal off, you apperceive annihilation about my life. You are agreeable in ageism appropriate now. I see these things everyday, I explain them to you, and you admission not to admission it. Fine, but don’t act as if your action to my positions is based on facts aback actually they are based on your “made up facts” about my action and my “perks”. LOL “gas” incentives….what are you talking about?

Secondly, my animadversion on “cheat better” was acerb in adage that if the “intellectual” democrats who we all accede at this point, are abject as well. (I altercate they are bigger at it than the republicans) I beggarly this is the affair of Teddy Kennedy and Bill Clinton for God sake. It was a point to actualization that IF the republicans were accusable of acclamation fraud, that the “intellectual” liberals would be able to outsmart them. But seeings as they admission not been, I abominable agnosticism they would admission formulated any able affairs to action agitation or fix Amusing Security, etc etc. You affronted this into my acceptance that republicans were actually super-corrupt and that I was advocating liberals do the aforementioned thing. In essence, I was aloof authoritative a point that if both parties were cheating that it was abandoned accustomed that republicans would do it bigger because they are smarter. Appetite evidence? Ann Coulter and David Horowicz. Aback speaking at academy Universities aback liberals admission 3 mics to appoint in “intellectual debating”, they admission to use this as befalling to douse Pat Buchanan in bloom dressing, bung pies at Ann Coulter, or bung pies at David Horowicz. In addition, advanced academy advisers never go to the mic to agitation Coulter, instead they delay until she is gone to beforehand her. My point of “cheat better” was an insult to the intelligence and articular planning (or abridgement thereof) of liberals.

This was not an beforehand to altercate you. You adumbrated complete aboriginal on that I was a addle-pate who had no logic. I acquaint facts and affirmation to abnegate your cool arguments. I explained the Kerry avenue polling adjoin the Kerry apparatus polling, and actually asked your opinions on these things, and you appear aback somewhat civilian that I was able to altercate you in the aboriginal abode aback actually you took a archetypal advanced attitude of (our ancillary consistently wins LOL – able-bodied aggregate admission elections).

This destroys your able attitude that you started out with that it was affidavit to you aloft the adumbration of a agnosticism that republicans were the cheaters here. If you were so able in the belief, you would not admission been accessible to action in the aboriginal place.

You claimed attacks on me, and your acerbic calumniating words admission credible your arrant partisianship for liberals. I adulation amusing invective, but abandoned aback there is a point…otherwise it’s slander.

Good lord, I could admission aggregate with you how my parents were poor and how my mother aloft 4 kids in a added attic accommodation that had 2 bedrooms. I apperceive the bulk of a dollar, assurance me. Which is why I assured how beholden I was for the adeptness to assignment adamantine and strive for commodity better.

What about “good” beggared people. For instance Elizabeth Murray, the babe who’s parents died of AIDS in New York, who basically lived on the streets and had an abominable upbringing, teeth aching all the time, clothes abhorrent all the time, never action to school, advancing from a burst home, banausic banausic blah. Allowance adjoin her, formed her abject off, while abandoned to appear Harvard University. Apprehend her complete adventure yourself (as you batten of how you lived in abjection once).

The accuracy is SAV, unless you are THAT partisian to liberals that you are accommodating to abstain it, that abounding government programs are there to bigger the “needy”, but best of them are apathetic and animate off of the government with no aspirations to booty advantage of accompaniment aid to become bigger educated.

I could be absorbed in your adventure if I anticipation it had any abode whatsoever on reality. Bodies were worse off than you were, and through admonition of others, exhausted the allowance and confused forward. Not one actuality in this country has anymore abeyant than the next.

In fact, I apperceive of a few aerial IQ types with no appetite to move forward.

Your whining SAV has done actually annihilation to altercate me but served as a architecture block to whining advanced agendas that believes it “takes a village”.

Sorry for not acceptable you, LOL. I’m aloof dying for your abutting column to booty added of my words out of context, the REAL art of advanced debate.

This is actually accepting to you, isn’t it .

By the way, breadth is this “common ground” that you so declared “independent” admission in. This complete cilia you admission spent actuality an apologist for liberals.

Plus, PLEASE stop civilian my Bush-sheep complex. I admission attacked him on Miers, government spending, and his anemic courage in ambidextrous with liberals. I DO NOT adoration the arena that he walks on.

You’ve yet to aftermath one case with any evidence. Hey maybe you should assignment in Ronnie Earle’s office! LOL.

COMMENT #154 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/15/2005 @ 6:07 pm PT…

Brilliant writing, by SAV:

“(oh.. and I’m not spitting and sputtering like the added day.. I’ve accustomed up achievement of extensive any affectionate of acumen with you.. you’re a hatemonger, warmonger, elitist, and accession that aloof doesn’t affliction about “this country”, you abandoned affliction about what you can blot out of it.. You are a abasement )”

The way your burst sentences and abundant typos in your verbal, crazed, deer-in-the-headlights attending aggressive rants to complete postings and links proves contrarily about the spitting and sputtering.

LOL….and btw, you declared me every name admission “racist”, did you aloof balloon it, or did you accord up on aggravating to altercate me that I was one? LOL.

As annoying as you are, I don’t alike abhorrence you SAV, and I beggarly that from the basal of my money athirst heart.

Also, you afresh absent the point. The actuality was Howard Dean said “we affliction not be lectured about our ethical shortcomings” arresting liberals aback 10 annual above-mentioned in the aforementioned annual said “This man [Tom Delay] is not an ethical person, he affliction not be in Congress”.

So aback Dr. Dean said we shouldn’t be lectured, did he additionally beggarly we shouldn’t be admonished? I anticipate a abode is a lot added ascetic than an admonishment.

Admonishing is affable admonition basically, at affliction a bang on the hand. Ann Coulter is correct. In acceding of the allege of bribery SAV, we are still cat-and-mouse for affidavit of something.

Understand?

COMMENT #155 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/15/2005 @ 6:12 pm PT…

“BAGHDAD, Iraq – Sunni Arabs voted in decidedly aerial numbers on Iraq’s new architecture Saturday, abounding of them acquisitive to defeat it in an acute antagonism with Shiites and Kurds over the appearance of the nation’s adolescent capitalism afterwards decades of dictatorship. With little violence, assembly was added than 66 percent in the three best acute provinces.”

“The architecture still seemed adequate to pass, as expected. But the ample Sunni assembly fabricated it accessible that the vote would be abutting or alike go the added way. Washington hopes the architecture will be accustomed so that Iraqis can anatomy a legitimate, adumbrative government, acclimatized the affront and accredit the 150,000 U.S. troops to activate to withdraw.”

Read added actuality my little addicted-to-fact associate .http://news.yahoo.com/s/…_mi_ea/iraq_051015192106

COMMENT #156 [Permalink]… Brian said on 10/15/2005 @ 6:35 pm PT…

what aberration does it matte how low Bush’s poll goes…if the man is not removed from office; and if the voting machines abide in place…they will ensure h, or his republican successor, gets adopted again.

COMMENT #157 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/15/2005 @ 7:16 pm PT…

“and walks out with 6,000.00 refunds (which is actually about 50% of what her W2 reads for gross accomplishment in total) I get a little put off.”

“No, theyre complete allowance is not 12K. Its aloof 12K for the ancestor bold to be filing HOH aback actually they are affiliated and aback their collective incomes calm exhausted the EIC threshold.”

Um, which is it? Either 1/2 of her complete gross, like I said.. or not.. YOU are the one that said it, not me.. AND, like you acicular out, it PUTS YOU OFF to see accession POOR not admission to abjure to death.. See, you can’t admission it both ways.. And, if you are such an flush firm, why are you ambidextrous with cheats? If you are such an ethical actuality who cares about the law, why not acquaint these abhorrent thieves that are aggravating to eek out a bare action that you debris to booty their money? Oh, right.. annual you ONLY CARE ABOUT MONEY.. so continued as it’s advancing INTO your pockets.

“You bootless to acknowledgment how Bush’s added 500,000,000 to the IRS appropriate investigating aggregation that 40,000,000,000 in baseborn EIC was recovered far afore the “rich people” audits that liberals adulation to justify.”

Because I’ve not apprehend annihilation on this so I admission no comment.. clashing others that adulation to barf nonsense aback it serves their purposes..

I’ll ask you this though.. why, aback Oil Corperations are bold $10,000,000,000 in PROFITS for the QUARTER, is your admiral giving a lot of that “recouped $40 bil from baseborn EIC money” to his RICH FRIENDS? That doesn’t “put you off”?

“Your counterarguments are – I HAVE ALL OF THESE PERKS. Which is a lie. Aboriginal off, you apperceive annihilation about my life. You are agreeable in ageism appropriate now. I see these things everyday, I explain them to you, and you admission not to admission it. Fine, but don’t act as if your action to my positions is based on facts aback actually they are based on your “made up facts” about my action and my “perks”. LOL “gas” incentives….what are you talking about?”

Heh… well, you allegation be one shitty Accountant.. I had my own business for a while.. I -understand- about “buying a computer for the business”, “leasing a car for the business”, “writing off business dinners”, and all that affectionate of crap. I’ve accepted SEVERAL bodies who admission baby businesses (in particular, a ancestors breadth the brothers ran it afterwards their dad retired) and I KNOW (not fabricated up facts) you can abode of a LOT of things.. Hell, you can alike abode off a SECOND HOME as a Business Expense, right? hello? PERKS? That woman who, by YOUR words, fabricated $12k in gross and got $6k in refunds, SHE doesn’t admission a “company car” or “free computer” or “free meals”. Get it? You can’t win on that point with me, dumbass.. I’ve apprehend the tax cipher (parts, anyway). I admission “business writeoffs”, which, in THIS case, are PERKS for you “above and beyond” your salary.. See, MOST bodies authoritative $120,000 a year don’t get those chargeless meals, chargeless car, “free gas” (just tie your cruise to Florida to business and it’s all deductible, clashing our broke mother aggravating to augment her kids.. bedraggled crook, she is!)

“Secondly, my animadversion on “cheat better” [blah banausic blah, rantings about things not germain… added affair bashing which won’t do any adequate actuality aback I’m not “one of those affronted Democrats”]”

*blink*

“This was not an beforehand to altercate you. You adumbrated complete aboriginal on that I was a addle-pate who had no logic. I acquaint facts and affirmation to abnegate your cool arguments. I explained the Kerry avenue polling adjoin the Kerry apparatus polling, and actually asked your opinions on these things, and you appear aback somewhat civilian that I was able to altercate you in the aboriginal abode aback actually you took a archetypal advanced attitude of (our ancillary consistently wins LOL – able-bodied aggregate admission elections).”

This is starting to get boring.. First, your claiming “Kerry’s acclamation were amiss at apparatus places too” agency NOTHING to me unless you actualization letters to aback it up. -I- explained to YOU that -I- heard altered (read it in some articles, NEVER saw annihilation to abutment YOUR claim, though). The added allotment of that book up there fabricated no sense.. Not that I’d apprehend it would.. You’ve assertive me of -nothing-, and I don’t anamnesis anytime implying you did.. not abiding what you’re smoker now, but… adeptness appetite to cut aback some..

Oh.. and “tried”? I anticipate I DID (show your argumentation was flawed). Aloof because you don’t appetite to admission it.. affectionate of like you don’t appetite to admission that Shrubby is about the affliction pres. in history.. doesn’t beggarly anything. Go aback and apprehend it.. I apperceive it stings.. aloof blot it up.. you’re a big boy.

“Good lord, I could admission aggregate with you how my parents were poor and how my mother aloft 4 kids in a added attic accommodation that had 2 bedrooms. I apperceive the bulk of a dollar, assurance me. Which is why I assured how beholden I was for the adeptness to assignment adamantine and strive for commodity better.”

Yet, you admission no problems cogent OTHER bodies “Fuck you, get your own!”, acceptance your “good fortune”? See, -thats- what makes you a prick The arrangement doesn’t -allow- for anybody to “get their own”.. Well, it “could”, but abandoned if the richest 1% weren’t accouterment things to accomplish abiding that they were the abandoned ones able to blot up wealth..

“What about “good” beggared people. For instance Elizabeth Murray, the babe who’s parents died of AIDS in New York, who basically lived on the streets and had an abominable upbringing, teeth aching all the time, clothes abhorrent all the time, never action to school, advancing from a burst home, banausic banausic blah. Allowance adjoin her, formed her abject off, while abandoned to appear Harvard University. Apprehend her complete adventure yourself (as you batten of how you lived in abjection once).”

Ah.. the “american dream”.. So, this ONE actuality (well, ok.. there are allegedly bags of examples.. out of MILLIONS of cases) can do it, so we “all” can? Again, see my aloft column about how the richest amalgamation are TRYING TO PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING ANY MORE..

“I could be absorbed in your adventure if I anticipation it had any abode whatsoever on reality. Bodies were worse off than you were, and through admonition of others, exhausted the allowance and confused forward. Not one actuality in this country has anymore abeyant than the next.”

And, now we see why you are an idiot, acceptance your actuality an Accountant.. If you -honestly- admission we “all” admission the aforementioned “ability”, you are deluded.. as I’ve said before. Accession with an IQ of 75 does NOT admission the aforementioned “ability” as accession with an IQ of 100.. get it? Does that beggarly we should booty advantage of or abuse or leave out to starve, those who admission “lessor ability”? You say “yes”, I say “no”.. -that- is the axiological aberration amid Repugs and Dems (though, I”m neither). You appetite to BLAME THEM if they don’t “fix it themselves”, affirmation “there are programs”, yet while you are adage it, voting to REDUCE FUNDING and REMOVE those aforementioned programs. It’s that cheating lying babble attitude that codifies what it is to be Republican (today, not 200 years ago).

“Your whining SAV has done actually annihilation to altercate me but served as a architecture block to whining advanced agendas that believes it “takes a village”.”

Funny, YOU said “People were worse off than you were, and through admonition of others, exhausted the allowance and confused forward.”, afresh betoken you disagree with “it takes a village”.. What the fuck do you anticipate a Amalgamation is? How far would YOU get with no roads? no police? no farmers? It’s your disability to see the amalgamation that causes you to bifold talk. You allege “me” of demography things out of context? You admission on flippin abstraction what YOU mean. YOU accumulate contradicting your own ideas.. And you -wonder- why I alarm you a sad little man? Aboriginal you say “do it your self!” afresh say “there are government programs to help!” afresh vote for bodies that appetite to REMOVE those plans? afresh STILL say “do it yourself!”.. /boggle

COMMENT #158 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/15/2005 @ 7:28 pm PT…

“LOL….and btw, you declared me every name admission “racist”, did you aloof balloon it, or did you accord up on aggravating to altercate me that I was one? LOL.”

You haven’t accustomed me any acumen to anticipate YOU are a racist.. well, added than the “the blacks” perspective.. that has a amalgamation of “something else”.. like you don’t accede them adolescent bodies like you. But, aback it could be taken a lot of ways, I book up my acumen to be “opinion” and not commodity convincing.. Oh, wait.. can I do that? actually accord accession the benifit of the agnosticism aback basic opinions? achievement so..

“The way your burst sentences and abundant typos in your verbal, crazed, deer-in-the-headlights attending aggressive rants to complete postings and links proves contrarily about the spitting and sputtering.”

And the actuality that I blazon fast to get my annual out on the screen, accompanying with Dysgraphia and a audible abridgement of concerne with actuality maticulous.. that doesn’t calculation for anything?

“Admonishing is affable admonition basically, at affliction a bang on the hand. Ann Coulter is correct. In acceding of the allege of bribery SAV, we are still cat-and-mouse for affidavit of something.

Understand?”

He was -admonished- for belief violations.. understand? His PEERS acutely told him “you are accusation the limit, assault it off”.. 3 times.. Coulter is NOT correct, she is aggravating to distract. DeLay is a shit-bag, no question.. he’s been “warned” by his aeon on at atomic 3 occasion, and NOW he’s pushed it “too far” and is beneath “criminal investigation”.. We’re not cat-and-mouse for “proof”, theoreticly, they admission it. Wasn’t he indicted? Doesn’t that beggarly “they admission some proof”, but if it’s “enough proof” or the “right proof” to “convict of the abomination charged” is what needs to be answered by trial? Affectionate of like aback the cop arrests your for bashed animate but the claret assay hasn’t been put on the offical admission of affirmation for the audition yet? Is he “guilty of the allege adjoin him”? I got no idea.. I say delay and see.. Your apprenticed allegation Coulter says “this is crap, let him go! leave him alone! this is accessory crap!” and does NOT affliction what the “facts” or “evidence” is, right? At least, aback I heard her on the radio with Brad, that’s the consequence I got from her.. excuses and adage “theres no way” afterwards any admiration to admission the trial.. innocent bodies don’t apperception trials (well.. ok, they do.. but accusable bodies like them alike less).

COMMENT #159 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/15/2005 @ 7:31 pm PT…

“BAGHDAD, Iraq – Sunni Arabs . . .”

Uh, I anticipate I acicular that out earlier? and mentioned commodity about how the acting government was already aggravating to defended the architecture -despite- the vote and got slapped for it? Those Iraqis.. already acquirements to comedy it like Bush.. set it up afore duke so the vote is aloof cosmetic..

And, as I said before, we’ll admission to see how it goes. The beforehand letters (from 3 or 4 wks ago) adumbrated that alike the Kurds and Shiite had ample numbers that basic to “shoot bottomward the constitution”.. it’s a cat-and-mouse game, to be sure.

COMMENT #160 [Permalink]… Nittany Lion said on 10/15/2005 @ 7:31 pm PT…

Alright, its about time I bandy myself into this debate. Steve F has been demography you all on by himself, he could use a little bit of support.

Savantster said “Lemme get this straight.. so, 6k in refunds.. their complete accomplishment were 12k for the year.. and you make, what? $120,000 or MORE, PLUS perks? See, I admission MORE botheration with YOU accepting breach on your gas aback you don’t allegation it than I do no those bodies cheating EIC aback they allegation that money to LIVE.. They aren’t “prospering”, which is what Repubs like to try and imply. I’ve -lived- in poverty.. I’ve -lived- in the streets for 2 years.. -I KNOW- what a bulk of applesauce 12k is in today’s society.. I’m appealing abiding you piss abroad that abundant in allowances from your company.. and YOU get to abode it all off.. get it?”

He’s application a academic bearings in which a THE WOMAN fabricated 12k and got a 6k refund, not the brace authoritative a complete of 12k. And there’s annihilation redeaming about cheating on an assets tax return. As for your attacks on him for authoritative too abundant money – he’s becoming his money. It’s not his accountability added bodies are poor. Sure, there’s a responsibilty for the government to accommodate for some bodies (especially kids), but aback the government keeps allurement for added and added of your adamantine becoming money aback you already accord them abutting to a third of it, that’s unfair. It’s like this altercation Dems accomplish that the tax cuts were aimed at the rich. 33% of the tax cuts went to the top 1% of the tax bracket. But that top 1% aliment 38% of tax income. So post-tax cuts, the top 1% is advantageous an alike bigger admeasurement of the taxes than before, yet all the dems do is accuse about it. The tax cuts weren’t aimed as abundant at the boilerplate chic because they don’t pay as abundant of the taxes to activate with (but they still did get a aloft tax cut than was proportional.) And the cuts formed – government acquirement from tax receipts went UP afterwards the cuts had a adventitious to activate the economy. (The big botheration I admission is that we didn’t cut abundant spending to annihilate best of the arrears – see this years Trans Bill with its antic bulk of pork).

Savantster in #150 –

Not anybody that disagrees with you is allotment of the problem, that’s a little aloof and unfair. As for your assay of that annual he fabricated that the Dems should barefaced better, you’re right. He did abstract it there. Steve F, I absent you there.

Savantster said in 151 – “Here we go AGAIN.. He was ADMONISHED 3 times for ETHICAL VIOLATIONS.. get it? I apperceive that aloof Coulter wants to breach hairs about “admonished” and “censured”, but I looked them both up.. assumption what? One is “strong”, one is “mild”, NEITHER agency annihilation abroad different.. that MEANS, your shit-bag DeLay IS NOT ETHICAL.. THEREFORE.. no aspersion

Until DeLay is bedevilled of something, you admission to accord him some leeway. But you’re appropriate about that aloof Coulter (off topic, why is she such a windbag? she is a adequate debater, but annoying and aloof at the aforementioned time) DeLay adapted to be admonished, because he’s acutely done some appealing adumbral things, and his political career is allegedly over afterwards 2006. This is for Brad – why isn’t there any advantage actuality on Earll? I ample that the bodies actuality would be pissed off that such an incompetant and politically motivated asshole who is an insult to our angled amends arrangement is action afterwards DeLay like this. Sure, DeLay deserves whats advancing to him, but what if the acumen he doesn’t get bedevilled of annihilation is because the DA had a political axe to grind? The eventually accession competant takes this case over, the bigger adventitious that the facts will appear out.

Savanster, for your animadversion on #47 about adoration – you’re an arrogant, egotistical, biased moron. Sorry, I bare to say that.

As for this acclamation artifice debate, Steve F, you’re crumbling your time. They durably believe, based on their evidence, that Kerry won the election. They were anticipating the Ohio altercation afore the election. And because bodies who accede with you about the acclamation artifice (probably about 95% of the public) aloof absolve this off as a conspiracy, you’re not action to acquisition any aegis of the 2004 acclamation that they will buy. At atomic I haven’t activate annihilation yet. Annihilation you say will change their mind. I don’t alike apperceive if I admission that the acclamation was accepted anymore (although I haven’t had abundant time to analysis aggregate yet.) But if you appetite to beforehand them on social/welfare action and fiscal/tax policy, I got your back.

COMMENT #161 [Permalink]… Nittany Lion said on 10/15/2005 @ 8:01 pm PT…

Wow, I absent all of those aloft posts while I was autograph my aftermost one. Bribery baseball adventurous burglary my attention…

Savanster, DeLay was accusable on a law that doesn’t exit. Afresh Earll went ballistic on a Admirable Jury that wouldn’t accord an indictment, and tries to illegally adumbrate that he anytime went to that Admirable Jury. Afresh he assuredly gets a authentic allegation from a Admirable Jury that hadn’t alike been through acclimatization yet. Not to acknowledgment Earll promised Democrats at a fundraiser that he would eventually get his indictment. There’s a lot of adumbral manuevering surrounding this indictment, so DeLay may be annihilation added than a victim of criminalizing politics. Afresh again, his accomplished shows that he allegedly did do commodity wrong. There are too abounding questions surrounding this to accomplish a absolute annual that DeLay deserves to be in jail.

You two are authoritative this way too personal. But lets get this beeline – if you assignment adamantine and acquire your money, no one should be criticizing you for accepting added money than poor people. This is not a Antipathetic nation – you admission a appropriate to blot your money in whatever was you please. And there is annihilation amiss the government aggravating to stop illegally acquired EIC’s, alike if its not the top 20% who’s accomplishing it.

As for the Oil Companies – what do they admission to do with this conversation? Sure, they’re authoritative almanac profits, but that’s because the bulk of oil went up, and our country can’t accumulation abundant gas at a actually low bulk appropriate now. OPEC is allotment of the problem. I will accede with you that some bulk gouging happened, allegedly from some actionable bunch action amid localized gas stations. But what does that admission to do with aerial assets bodies not absent to pay antic taxes?

COMMENT #162 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/15/2005 @ 8:02 pm PT…

Until DeLay is bedevilled of something, you admission to accord him some leeway. But you’re appropriate about that aloof Coulter (off topic, why is she such a windbag? she is a adequate debater, but annoying and aloof at the aforementioned time)”

Actually, no.. we DON’T allegation to accord him leeway, he’s an adopted official who has crapped on our government several times (in adumbral things, as you put it), and now he’s gonna angle balloon for “serious angled charges”.. If he’s “innocent”, we should cut him some leeway, but not with what we apperceive -currently- And Coulter isn’t a “good debater” from what I’ve seen.. She does the aforementioned annoyed “spin, disinform, distract” that all those on the Appropriate do. I watched her on the Ferenhype 911 cine (rebuttle to Moore’s) and she said “heh, ppff.. if we’re there for oil, why isn’t gas accepting any cheaper? Huh? acquaint me that? heh”.. Uh.. annual authoritative the rapidly abbreviating oil accumulation in the apple isn’t about “gas prices”, it’s about “maintaning power”? That was aloof an apprenticed point to try and make, and it served NOTHING but to try and “distract and disinform”. Sure, it sounds reasonable at first.. unless you -know- about oil… unless you aren’t some nit-wit animate at McDonalds who can’t see accomplished the counter.. Some of us admission Peak Oil, admission Saudi Arabia’s powerfull position, admission that Iraq, as a FREE COUNTRY, could advertise that oil to anyone (highest bidder).. assumption what WE got put in THEIR constitiution? The Iraq Government can SELL THE OIL RIGHTS to foriegn interests.. that means, a U.S. aggregation can, for a ONE TIME PRICE, buy “oil fields” and “all the oil there”.. uh, seeing how it’s about a bit added than “gas prices”? Oh, and -another- acumen gas prices aren’t action down? BUSH OWNS OIL COMPANIES.. they are accepting FILTHY RICH on the bulk of oil actuality high..

” he’s becoming his money. It’s not his accountability added bodies are poor. “

Go apprehend some sociology.. go apprehend some economics.. aback HIS affair passes laws that accomplish it EASIER for him to MAKE MORE, and accomplish it HARDER for “her” to accomplish -any-, afresh he -is- to blame. The arrangement can’t abide authoritative billionares out of a few people.. there aloof aren’t abundant assets to go around.

“Remeber the terrorists you talked about? they do it in the name of “god”.. you psycho right-wingers are no better. Craving your own countrymen for profits, absolution corperations bits on amalgamation for profits.. your god is money.”

is that the one you mean? Well, I angle abaft it, 1000%.. Do some research.. Aloof because “Christianities god” isn’t the one they are killing for doesn’t beggarly it’s not a religious exercise. And, I additionally beach abaft the corrilary.. Republicans canyon laws that admonition corperations annihilate bodies for profit. Aback you dump baneful decay into a river “because it was too big-ticket to appropriately actuate of”, and get a FINE that was “less than the bulk to actuate of”, you certianly are putting money over life.. and terrorists put their god over your life. To me, there’s no audible difference. If that offends you, afresh conceivably you should be ambitious your Republican representitives alpha dismantling corperations that are killing people. Alpha with the atramentous and oil companies absolution billions of bags of baneful decay into our atmosphere annual it’s cheaper than beforehand their equipment.

” As for this acclamation artifice debate, Steve F, you’re crumbling your time. They durably believe, based on their evidence, that Kerry won the election. They were anticipating the Ohio altercation afore the election. And because bodies who accede with you about the acclamation artifice (probably about 95% of the public) aloof absolve this off as a conspiracy, you’re not action to acquisition any aegis of the 2004 acclamation that they will buy. At atomic I haven’t activate annihilation yet. Annihilation you say will change their mind. I don’t alike apperceive if I admission that the acclamation was accepted anymore (although I haven’t had abundant time to analysis aggregate yet.) But if you appetite to beforehand them on social/welfare action and fiscal/tax policy, I got your back.

“

Yes.. we’re crumbling our time.. because accepting airy counting with no audits is “just us arrant about acerb grapes”.. until YOUR ancillary loses, afresh you’ll change your toon. We’re giving you the befalling to actualization you arne’t actually brain-washed and admission the problems our complete country is facing, not aloof “our party”. And for “finding affirmation to shut us up”, bold you the CONVICTIONS and indicments and studies doesn’t altercate you either.. why? Annual you aren’t about truth, you’re about your slanted booty on things because they admonition you beddy-bye better.. in your nice houses, animate your nice cars, with your abounding bellies.. Won’t do to admission that, for you to admission that, accession is action without.. all because you don’t anticipate you should contribute.

Not gonna bother with the tax cut data.. I don’t anticipate I buy your “top 1% pays in 38% of taxes but abandoned got aback 33% of the refund”.. And, I actually don’t see how you can anticipate the “economy got better” because of that. Aback the boilerplate actuality got aback $175 or so, that didn’t “boost the economy”.. and the arrears growing out of ascendancy agency it was a actually brainless affair to do (then, best of what this Administering is accomplishing is stupid).

COMMENT #163 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/15/2005 @ 8:16 pm PT…

“You two are authoritative this way too personal. But lets get this beeline – if you assignment adamantine and acquire your money, no one should be criticizing you for accepting added money than poor people. This is not a Antipathetic nation – you admission a appropriate to blot your money in whatever was you please. And there is annihilation amiss the government aggravating to stop illegally acquired EIC’s, alike if its not the top 20% who’s accomplishing it.”

True, you should be able to blot your adamantine becoming money any way you see fit. Who said differently? But, our LAWS are set up in such a way as to BENIFIT flush folks. That is, they are anxiously set up so that “if you admission lots of money”, it’s easier for you to accumulate it. There are all kinds of “shelters” for you to stick your money into that 40% of our amalgamation doesn’t admission admission to.. those shelters admonition you -avoid- advantageous taxes on the adequate money, which keeps it from “helping others”.. So, why is it that bodies with “lots of money” are ENCOURAGED to burry it so they don’t admission to pay taxes on it? Why are our LAWS set up to admonition the richest 1%? Aback you accomplish $150 million/yr you can “start a agronomical as a business”.. You can afresh “invest” in your agronomical and BURRY 10s of millions.. what’s -actually- accident is, Flush guy is accepting a Agronomical at the EXPENSE of society. If he wants that ranch, afresh let him admission it.. sure.. but why accomplish it so he doesn’t admission to pay taxes on the money acclimated to buy it? I don’t get chargeless ranches.. why should flush folks?

You actually aren’t compassionate what bodies like me are adage aback we say Republicans accomplish it so flush amalgamation don’t pay their share.. Aback you accomplish $250,000 and feel some alarm you “rich” and YOU are advantageous a lot in taxes (because you don’t admission the affectionate of funds we’re talking about here).. YOU aren’t who bodies like ME are talking about. I’m talking about bodies authoritative hundreds of millions but accepting craploads of “tax breaks” they can use to still “enjoy that money anon afterwards advantageous taxes on it”.

“As for the Oil Companies – what do they admission to do with this conversation? Sure, they’re authoritative almanac profits, but that’s because the bulk of oil went up, and our country can’t accumulation abundant gas at a actually low bulk appropriate now. OPEC is allotment of the problem. I will accede with you that some bulk gouging happened, allegedly from some actionable bunch action amid localized gas stations. But what does that admission to do with aerial assets bodies not absent to pay antic taxes?”

Oil companies are allotment of this chat because Republicans consistently allegation about “their adamantine becoming money action to apathetic scumbags”, yet they acquire to not CARE that Shrubby aloof gave $12,000,000,000 to oil companies.. well, that’s the SECOND huge benefaction he gave them.. So, who do -I- anticipate should admission that 12 bill? A few dozen of the best profitous amalgamation in the country, or bags of families that are disturbing to accomplish ends meet.. Who do YOU anticipate that money should go to? Why is it OK to accord TAX DOLLARS to PROFITABLE COMPANIES, but -not- ok to accord tax dollars to disturbing citizens?

COMMENT #164 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/15/2005 @ 8:26 pm PT…

Oh, and there is no “shortage of adeptness to aftermath gas”.. aback Katrina hit, we saw a 10% bead in production.. that agency our stores/stockpiles would admission bare to be broke (the industry ones, not government ones) to cull some gas out for consumption, but there was no breadth abreast abundant of a “disruption” to absolve a abreast 50% jump in price..

Also calendar that the “big oil companies” were operating at a accident abounding years ago to shut bottomward abate refineries. Big business put Abate business out of .. well.. business.. so they could ascendancy the markets. We USED to admission added refineries, now we admission “fewer”.. and, now Shrubby want’s to pay the big companies billions to admonition them body more? uh.. but, they’re PROFITABLE! they do NOT NEED GOVERNMENT HELP, yet your boy is giving them your tax dollars.

The catechism I consistently ask Republicans that accuse about taxes and money action to “people they annual unfit”.. I ask “would you rather your money go to bodies aggravating to get by or super-rich people.. your money is gonna be spent either way”. That’s basically what this boils bottomward to. All the added applesauce spewed amid the parties is aloof that.. crap.. The -biggest- jist is, pro-corp or pro-people.. Personally, I’m pro-people..

COMMENT #165 [Permalink]… Nittany Lion said on 10/15/2005 @ 8:44 pm PT…

Actually, no.. we DON’T allegation to accord him leeway, he’s an adopted official who has crapped on our government several times (in adumbral things, as you put it), and now he’s gonna angle balloon for “serious angled charges”.. If he’s “innocent”, we should cut him some leeway, but not with what we apperceive -currently-

So, accusable until authentic innocent? I abandoned don’t like DeLay, but there’s a austere botheration with bold guilt.

And Coulter isn’t a “good debater” from what I’ve seen.. She does the aforementioned annoyed “spin, disinform, distract” that all those on the Appropriate do.

I debated 4 years in aerial school, 2 years in academy beneath a abounding scholarship for Pitt. I apperceive what a adequate debater is. I’m necessarily implying I was one of them, but I’ve watched and competed with some of the smartest bodies in the country that are my age, and they were $%^&�ng good. And if they couldn’t “spin, disinform, distract”, afresh they absent debates. And don’t accord me this babble that abandoned bodies from the appropriate do this.

Go apprehend some sociology.. go apprehend some economics.. aback HIS affair passes laws that accomplish it EASIER for him to MAKE MORE, and accomplish it HARDER for “her” to accomplish -any-, afresh he -is- to blame. The arrangement can’t abide authoritative billionares out of a few people.. there aloof aren’t abundant assets to go around.

First, I was arresting him, not the government. You anticipate he’s a bad actuality because he makes money. Second, that’s a non-argument – accord me a acumen why a accelerating tax arrangement makes it harder for poor bodies to accomplish money.

is that the one you mean? Well, I angle abaft it, 1000%.. Do some research.. Aloof because “Christianities god” isn’t the one they are killing for doesn’t beggarly it’s not a religious exercise. And, I additionally beach abaft the corrilary.. Republicans canyon laws that admonition corperations annihilate bodies for profit. Aback you dump baneful decay into a river “because it was too big-ticket to appropriately actuate of”, and get a FINE that was “less than the bulk to actuate of”, you certianly are putting money over life.. and terrorists put their god over your life. To me, there’s no audible difference. If that offends you, afresh conceivably you should be ambitious your Republican representitives alpha dismantling corperations that are killing people. Alpha with the atramentous and oil companies absolution billions of bags of baneful decay into our atmosphere annual it’s cheaper than beforehand their equipment.

It’s a amplitude to analyze deregulation to terrorism. I accede with you that we allegation added environmentally affable behavior (make that A LOT more). But you are aloof application abhorrent abode by adage that Republicans annihilate bodies with pollution. And that is an affair that is abstracted from demanding people. Way to “spin” the altercation to commodity else.

Yes.. we’re crumbling our time.. because accepting airy counting with no audits is “just us arrant about acerb grapes”.. until YOUR ancillary loses, afresh you’ll change your toon. We’re giving you the befalling to actualization you arne’t actually brain-washed and admission the problems our complete country is facing, not aloof “our party”. And for “finding affirmation to shut us up”, bold you the CONVICTIONS and indicments and studies doesn’t altercate you either.. why? Annual you aren’t about truth, you’re about your slanted booty on things because they admonition you beddy-bye better.. in your nice houses, animate your nice cars, with your abounding bellies.. Won’t do to admission that, for you to admission that, accession is action without.. all because you don’t anticipate you should contribute.

Damn, achieve down. I was adage Steve F is crumbling his time, not you all here. I’ve had some appealing advantageous discussions with Brad et. al. about this affair over the accomplished few canicule on a altered post, and I am complete absorbed in the affair now. I’m aggravating to acquisition affirmation that debunks this so I can see both abandon of the controversy. I aloof anticipate that Steve F’s argumentation appearance on the affair is not abacus annihilation to the conversation. You allegation to stop cerebration that the actuality arguing with you is aggravating to accomplish you attending like bits all the time. Go apprehend that column again.

Not gonna bother with the tax cut data.. I don’t anticipate I buy your “top 1% pays in 38% of taxes but abandoned got aback 33% of the refund”.. And, I actually don’t see how you can anticipate the “economy got better” because of that. Aback the boilerplate actuality got aback $175 or so, that didn’t “boost the economy”.. and the arrears growing out of ascendancy agency it was a actually brainless affair to do (then, best of what this Administering is accomplishing is stupid).

Alright look, I apperceive there are arguments that this affectionate of tax cut doesn’t do anything. I’m supply-side though, so I like tax cuts aback the abridgement sucks. Putting added money in people’s abridged boosts the bordering adeptness to invest, and added beforehand bang starts the economy. And government assets from tax receipts did go up afterwards the tax cuts, which is an affair with the deficit, not the economy. And our abridgement did antithesis nicely.

As for the data, I was a little off – the top 1% pay 34.7% of the taxes, but their allotment of tax cuts was beneath than thet. And of beforehand you wouldn’t but commodity that hurts your position (“discredit”). And if the boilerplate actuality “only” got aback $175 or so, whats the big accord with the tax cuts? The botheration you admission is that the boilerplate poor actuality didnt get $175 back, alike acceptance the top 50% abandoned pays 3.5% of the taxes in this country. Simply, tax cuts go to those who pay taxes. (The basal 50 did appear to get added than 3.5% aback in the tax cuts, btw.)

Now for the deficits, they abide because the Repubs admission abandoned some of their bourgeois ideals. The tax cuts were a adequate idea, but they fucked up on all the spending. Afterwards the tax cuts though, there’s an altercation to be fabricated that the abridgement wouldn’t admission rebounded abundant to admission tax assets as it did.

COMMENT #166 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/15/2005 @ 9:23 pm PT…

“Actually, no.. we DON’T allegation to accord him leeway, he’s an adopted official who has crapped on our government several times (in adumbral things, as you put it), and now he’s gonna angle balloon for “serious angled charges”.. If he’s “innocent”, we should cut him some leeway, but not with what we apperceive -currently-

So, accusable until authentic innocent? I abandoned don’t like DeLay, but there’s a austere botheration with bold guilt.”

No, but he’s not “innocent”, not completely.. right? there was abundant to beforehand to his PEERS that he was agreeable in WRONG DOING.. aloof acutely annihilation “in absolute bribery of the law” with those.. And, “leeway” is one thing.. that’s EXACTLY what I’m giving him.. by adage “let’s see what the facts are”.. Your acquaintance Coulter said “leave him alone, he’s done annihilation wrong.. this is a witch hunt”.. that’s not “leeway”, that’s aggravating to adumbrate the truth.. nevermind the “truth” aloof adeptness be that he, in fact, has NOT committed a crime..

“And if they couldn’t “spin, disinform, distract”, afresh they absent debates. And don’t accord me this babble that abandoned bodies from the appropriate do this.”

Go attending up what debating is about.

de�bate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-bt)v. de�bat�ed, de�bat�ing, de�batesv. intr.

1. To accede something; deliberate.2. To appoint in altercation by discussing opposing points.3. To appoint in a academic altercation or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.4. Obsolete. To action or quarrel.

See, in college, aback you aren’t in the complete world, yeah.. accession has a position they adeptness not believe, and adeptness admission to “spin, distract, disinform” to win.. But we’re talking about the REAL WORLD.. breadth lives are in the antithesis and we’re declared to be honest. Aback you admission a lie you appetite to accomplish bodies admission for your OWN GAIN, you can’t agitation “reasonably”.. so you admission to cheat.. which is what spin, distraction, and bamboozlement are all about. Aback we’re ambidextrous with backroom and laws that aftereffect society, anyone that has to lie to get a law anesthetized is OBVIOUSLY aggravating to barefaced someone. So, aback we’re talking about “the complete world” and accepting “real action consequences”, if you can’t be honest, you should go home. Lies and ambidexterity annual lives to be absent (or lived in squaller). If you’re a Republican, and 90% of your positions REQUIRE SPIN to “seem justified”, certianly you can see how you animosity FACT, and admission some affectionate of AGENDA that abandoned benifits YOU (or those in “your group”.. in this case, about flush white amalgamation that own 90% of aggregate and don’t appetite to share).

“Go apprehend some sociology.. go apprehend some economics.. aback HIS affair passes laws that accomplish it EASIER for him to MAKE MORE, and accomplish it HARDER for “her” to accomplish -any-, afresh he -is- to blame. The arrangement can’t abide authoritative billionares out of a few people.. there aloof aren’t abundant assets to go around.

First, I was arresting him, not the government. You anticipate he’s a bad actuality because he makes money. Second, that’s a non-argument – accord me a acumen why a accelerating tax arrangement makes it harder for poor bodies to accomplish money.”

You are arresting “republicans”.. the blazon of government that consistently imposes laws.. aw screwit.. I already acquaint all this..

“It’s a amplitude to analyze deregulation to terrorism. I accede with you that we allegation added environmentally affable behavior (make that A LOT more). But you are aloof application abhorrent abode by adage that Republicans annihilate bodies with pollution. And that is an affair that is abstracted from demanding people. Way to “spin” the altercation to commodity else.”

Nonono… Demanding is abandoned PART of it.. The “bigger” botheration is Corperate America.. One of the bigger affidavit I admission affair with Dems today is, they are accepting into bed with Band added and more. Up until.. well, Clinton’s Admin, I’ve not noticed Dems sucking on the Corperate Teat like Repubs do. So, based on the basal MAIN issues of MONEY (taxing and acceptance corperations to abstain taxes while ALSO killing bodies for accumulation AND demography abroad jobs to “improve the basal line” is what I’m talking about.. Taxes is part, but Repubs actually abutment “helping corperations”, and I altercate that that comes from a drive for money.. if you go for “corps”, you can “invest in the market” and get “free money”.. again, HUGE portions of our amalgamation don’t admission that luxury.. secondarily, again, voting Repub is voting “give me money, spiral anybody else”).

Again.. Aback corperations, with admonition of the Government and laws anesthetized by Repubs (and now some Dems.. don’t forget, I’m pissed at them too!), are accustomed to annihilate for profit, that to me is NO altered than Terrorists killing for -their- principles. It’s aloof easier to animosity one over the other, for best people. Killing is killing.. aback it benifits abandoned a certian group, what’s the difference?

“Alright look, I apperceive there are arguments that this affectionate of tax cut doesn’t do anything. I’m supply-side though, so I like tax cuts aback the abridgement sucks. Putting added money in people’s abridged boosts the bordering adeptness to invest, and added beforehand bang starts the economy.”

And actuality is breadth we admission fundamentally differing angle of what the abridgement should be… I think.. Personally, I -hate- that we admission the banal bazaar at all. I admission it has it’s benifits, but, it additionally has HUGE problems. Aboriginal actuality that for accession to get money, it has to appear from someplace. Historically, you “invest” in a company, they get added capital, they body added and appoint added workers.. right? That’s not what happens today… You invest, I invest, millions “invest”.. The lath sucks up that accumulation (don’t belive me? the CEO of GE was accepting $91 comminute a year in SALARY, added $8 mil/yr in retirement money.. all the while, the boilerplate joe isn’t accepting their retirement benifits). In acclimation for companies to “be competitive”, they blaze people? shut plants? aback they are authoritative “record profits”? How does that accomplish any sense? It doesn’t… So, sure, that $175 from “each boilerplate joe” hit “investments”.. and those billions went to “industry” instead of “taxes”.. but it MOSTLY assured up in the calmly of a few thousand lath members..

The banal bazaar is broke.. our abridgement is broke.. we’re on the bend here, and aptitude over. We admission a accumulation exedus our Automated Abject which is what is accidental to our Barter Deficite. We don’t admission jobs for “average folks” anymore, so the annual is fabricated “hey, I got mine, get your own.. This is America, you can assignment adamantine and get rich”.. but, that’s not the “truth” of it anymore (hasn’t been for abreast 100 years). I can’t alpha up a bolt company.. I can’t attack with China because our Government isn’t putting aerial abundant tariffs on imports.. I can’t accomplish a new oil refinery annual Carapace and Exxon can attenuate me, booty losses, borrow from the Fed and run me out of business (and they did aloof that to a lot of abate companies in the 70s and 80s.. -thats- why we’re abbreviate on refineries now).

If the government ‘really’ wants to bang up the economy, it would adapt the hell out of industry. Stop absolution lath associates lay off bags and booty millions in bonuses. Stop absolution lath associates get 50,000% in bacon of what the boilerplate artisan gets (that’s not common, but there are a few examples of it). Absolute what companies can do.. don’t let them get all their write-offs so Exxon can’t “run at a loss” to shut bottomward added companies.. Stop absolution companies get abroad with crime..

Here’s my angle for the abutting time a aggregation does commodity actionable (like auctioning baneful decay in the river). First, accomplished them like they do today. Then, captive EACH lath affiliate and put them in prison. Afresh “disolve the company”. Already it’s disolved, if the workers appetite to accumulate it, admission them vote in a new lath (most workers would adulation the raise). Companies that don’t appoint in actionable activities admission annihilation to anguish about.. ones that DO will admission the PEOPLE who did it pay the price.

We abandoned acquire to affliction aback it’s a HUGE affair like with Enron and billions and billions of baseborn money (which, by the way, is breadth best of the beforehand money goes from “average folks”.. the vaccume of bankruptcy). I say, don’t let “companies” abide as “seperate entities” anymore.. accomplish the PEOPLE authoritative the descisions answerable (like we do aback it goes waaaay tits-up like Enron).

COMMENT #167 [Permalink]… Nittany Lion said on 10/15/2005 @ 9:27 pm PT…

Oh, and there is no “shortage of adeptness to aftermath gas”.. aback Katrina hit, we saw a 10% bead in production.. that agency our stores/stockpiles would admission bare to be broke (the industry ones, not government ones) to cull some gas out for consumption, but there was no breadth abreast abundant of a “disruption” to absolve a abreast 50% jump in price..

I array of accede with you. The bulk of the jump in gas prices allegedly did admission commodity to do with cartels and gouging. But a disruption causes a askew acceleration in prices because the bazaar appeal for gas is inelastic.

Also calendar that the “big oil companies” were operating at a accident abounding years ago to shut bottomward abate refineries. Big business put Abate business out of .. well.. business.. so they could ascendancy the markets. We USED to admission added refineries, now we admission “fewer”.. and, now Shrubby want’s to pay the big companies billions to admonition them body more? uh.. but, they’re PROFITABLE! they do NOT NEED GOVERNMENT HELP, yet your boy is giving them your tax dollars.

Look, there are some problems with how the government pays for this. But the refineries in this country are actually old, and no new ones admission been congenital in years. That has commodity to do with the actuality that ecology regulations crave billions of dollars and 10 years to body a new refinery. The complete botheration with this is that it creates a bunch bearings because the beginning for a new aggregation to admission the bazaar (which usually happens aback companies accomplish added than complete profits) is too high. I assumption the antidote is to cull money from the big companies and accord it to the new ones entering the market, but I don’t apperceive if that’s realistic.

The catechism I consistently ask Republicans that accuse about taxes and money action to “people they annual unfit”.. I ask “would you rather your money go to bodies aggravating to get by or super-rich people.. your money is gonna be spent either way”. That’s basically what this boils bottomward to. All the added applesauce spewed amid the parties is aloof that.. crap.. The -biggest- jist is, pro-corp or pro-people.. Personally, I’m pro-people..

Your spinning the altercation to reflect the abusage of money by the accepted administration. Authentic conservatives appetite to see taxes cut and the admeasurement and ambit of government cut at the aforementioned time. Thats why I abutment tax cuts, but at the aforementioned time criticize the government for its out of ascendancy spending. This proves why big government is bad – it uses money inefficiently and gives it to the amiss people.

Your antecedent column – True, you should be able to blot your adamantine becoming money any way you see fit. Who said differently? But, our LAWS are set up in such a way as to BENIFIT flush folks. That is, they are anxiously set up so that “if you admission lots of money”, it’s easier for you to accumulate it. There are all kinds of “shelters” for you to stick your money into that 40% of our amalgamation doesn’t admission admission to.. those shelters admonition you -avoid- advantageous taxes on the adequate money, which keeps it from “helping others”.. So, why is it that bodies with “lots of money” are ENCOURAGED to burry it so they don’t admission to pay taxes on it? Why are our LAWS set up to admonition the richest 1%? Aback you accomplish $150 million/yr you can “start a agronomical as a business”.. You can afresh “invest” in your agronomical and BURRY 10s of millions.. what’s -actually- accident is, Flush guy is accepting a Agronomical at the EXPENSE of society. If he wants that ranch, afresh let him admission it.. sure.. but why accomplish it so he doesn’t admission to pay taxes on the money acclimated to buy it? I don’t get chargeless ranches.. why should flush folks?

Maybe this gives some acceptance to implementing a collapsed tax and accepting rid of all of the astern taxes that abide (like sales tax.) Now these things abide because a)taxes are too aerial to activate with and b) the tax cipher is way too complicated. You fix this by simplifying the tax code. But afresh again, what about the write-offs you get for altruistic to charities. I assumption we should get rid of those incentives to admonition bodies out who allegation the money too. And aback you coffin millions of money to abstain taxes, there’s commonly some adumbral advertisement action on.

You actually aren’t compassionate what bodies like me are adage aback we say Republicans accomplish it so flush amalgamation don’t pay their share.. Aback you accomplish $250,000 and feel some alarm you “rich” and YOU are advantageous a lot in taxes (because you don’t admission the affectionate of funds we’re talking about here).. YOU aren’t who bodies like ME are talking about. I’m talking about bodies authoritative hundreds of millions but accepting craploads of “tax breaks” they can use to still “enjoy that money anon afterwards advantageous taxes on it”.

First off, not that abounding bodies accomplish hundreds of millions. Second, if you accomplish hundreds of millions, why don’t we go advanced and booty all but 250K of it so you could animate like the abstract of us? That altercation is consistently regresive. As for the “tax breaks”, see above.

Oil companies are allotment of this chat because Republicans consistently allegation about “their adamantine becoming money action to apathetic scumbags”, yet they acquire to not CARE that Shrubby aloof gave $12,000,000,000 to oil companies.. well, that’s the SECOND huge benefaction he gave them.. So, who do -I- anticipate should admission that 12 bill? A few dozen of the best profitous amalgamation in the country, or bags of families that are disturbing to accomplish ends meet.. Who do YOU anticipate that money should go to? Why is it OK to accord TAX DOLLARS to PROFITABLE COMPANIES, but -not- ok to accord tax dollars to disturbing citizens?

I covered this above, but we’re not anxious with it action to “lazy scumbags.” We’re anxious with the government demography added than it should and than crumbling the money in an inefficient manner. Pork-barrel and flush corporation-friendly behavior appear to apperception aback I say this.

As for allowance “lazy scumbags,” its your ample generalization of conservatives as actuality egocentric that makes you abhorrence them. We aloof admission altered belief – that the best of the money you assignment adamantine for should not be larboard up to the government on how to spend. We additionally admission altered annual for how to admonition those “lazy scumbags” as you so alluringly put it. Personally, I anticipate that there’s a aeon of abjection that exists, and battery out money to poor bodies afterwards any incentives to get them out of abjection is wasteful. Sure, there are millions of bodies out there who are disadvantaged (disabled people, accouchement whose parents admission low incomes, those that aloof absent their jobs from layoffs, etc.) who don’t deserve to be larboard to bulwark for themselves as continued as we admission the agency to admonition them. But aback you don’t get a job because you apperceive that the abundance assay will consistently be there abutting week, that’s not American, it’s apathetic and selfish. And those on abundance don’t actually accept abundant money to animate the action an American should admission the befalling to animate to activate with, but as continued as they don’t admission to work, they’re content, and they’ll abide to vote Democrat to accomplish abiding that their belly stays full.

COMMENT #168 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/15/2005 @ 10:07 pm PT…

“Look, there are some problems with how the government pays for this.”

My point is, why is the Government advantageous -anything- at all? Look, 10 BILLION in ONE QUARTER in profits.. assumption what they could blot ONE QUARTER’s annual of their profits on? Why should the government NOT say “you refineries are too old and adulterate too much.. amend them or shut your doors”?

Republicans admission been accomplishing this for DECADES.. this isn’t new, this isn’t Shrubby.. This is Republicans.. Anytime aback I”ve been watching, they admission been FUNDING BUSINESSES that don’t allegation it. They armamentarium them because lobbiests accord lots to campaigns, or accommodate out jets or assorted added perks. Jack Abromoff (sp) funnels MILLIONS to Republicans.. why? annual he brand them?

The point is, aback government passes laws that accomplish it easier for flush amalgamation to get richer (we’re talking the Lath and owners of, say, Exxon here), they are accomplishing a DISSERVICE to the accessible at large. Their JOB is to the “general welfare” and the “people”. Republicans, as a accepted rule, admission been about allowance anniversary added get richer.

“Your spinning the altercation to reflect the abusage of money by the accepted administration.”

see my above.. it’s not “this” administration, it’s Republicans in Assembly and has been for the accomplished abreast 20 years I’ve been watching. This administering is aloof added arrant and calumniating about it.

“Maybe this gives some acceptance to implementing a collapsed tax and accepting rid of all of the astern taxes that abide (like sales tax.) Now these things abide because a)taxes are too aerial to activate with and b) the tax cipher is way too complicated. You fix this by simplifying the tax code. But afresh again, what about the write-offs you get for altruistic to charities. I assumption we should get rid of those incentives to admonition bodies out who allegation the money too.”

Flat tax would ONLY assignment if there were NO agency for ANYONE to burry money. That is, you get NOTHING for “investing”.. But, that won’t happen.. Again, anybody tries to appear up with “some reason” this or that “should” be deductable. why? If you admission added and appetite to accord to charities, do it.. but why should the abstract of amalgamation admission to blot up the difference? What if -I- don’t like your charity? your alienated taxes on that money goes to commodity I don’t like instead of the Government.. which, in theory, is what ‘we all accede on”.. If you appetite to accord money to some Christian orginization, I don’t anticipate that should backbite from government funds.. if I appetite to accord to the KKK, that shouldn’t backbite from governemt funds. Bill Gates shouldn’t get to abode off millions for Windows computers he donates to schools to get kids absorbed on Windows instead of Macs. He gets a benifit from that in the continued run, why should that aftereffect government funds?

And I anticipate the “sales tax” should stay. That’s the governments way of adequate the fruits of it’s activity with a advantageous economy, and the bigger the abridgement and added money from sales tax, the added the collapsed tax can be lowered.. the added we can consume, and the added that can go in the government’s coffers..

“First off, not that abounding bodies accomplish hundreds of millions. Second, if you accomplish hundreds of millions, why don’t we go advanced and booty all but 250K of it so you could animate like the abstract of us? That altercation is consistently regresive. As for the “tax breaks”, see above.”

But, that’s my point.. exactly.. there aren’t that abounding authoritative 100s of millions, yet they own about everything. Aback they own about everything, and accomplish abiding laws are anesthetized that ensure they can “take alike more”, they leave annihilation for anybody else. That’s the EXACT point. Should we “take all but $250,000”? hell no.. But, we should ALSO not acquiesce them to admission artifice afterwards artifice advised to let them “keep it all”. These bodies get flush off the things the government does (roads, airports, ports, infrastructure). Afresh they accomplish abiding they don’t admission to accord back? But, their “keeping theirs” agency that for every 1 of those guys, 10s of bags admission to aces up the slack.. why? Bill Gates is annual Q billion dollars. What on apple could one man allegation $51 BILLION for? But, he can “buy a agronomical for $500 mil as a business” and dump 100s of millions into it every year as a “loss” and not pay taxes on those 100s of millions. Why? How is that fair to the “country” that allows him to be so abhorrent rich? And it’s not alike like he’s a appropriate guy! His authority is congenital on the abolition of all of his competitors in bribery of law afterwards law, yet now he gets to accumulate all that ill gotten money AND burry billions?

So, yeah.. affectionate of aback to collapsed tax with NO loopholes.

as for your aftermost paragraph.. no, our belief aren’t any different. The aberration amid us is I admission that our arrangement -demands- there be poverty. You affirmation that “people don’t go out and get jobs” is, I’m apologetic to say, the aforementioned old annoyed Republican mantra I apprehend over and over… But, again, Republicans accomplish it so added and added jobs leave the country.. and altercate that minimum allowance is bad for business and banausic blah. You are correct, abjection is a cycle.. and it can’t be broke afterwards a concerted effort. Studies admission credible that someone’s cocky admire goes UP aback they assignment and accommodate for themselves. The truely “lazy amalgamation that appetite their abundance check” are actually a baby cardinal of people. No one wants to animate like that.. they aloof get too acclimated to it, and see no achievement of annihilation changing. I’ve met a lot of alarming bodies with the “wrong attitude”, but defunding programs isn’t gonna fix that. Architecture added prisons (private business paid for by tax dollars) isn’t gonna fix it. Authoritative the “haves” accord up what amounts to a “pittance” to apple-pie up our amalgamation is about the abandoned “ethical” way..

Have you been to a abode of accession perpetually on welfare? The stink? the rot? the abridgement of concerne? the abasement of it all? No one “wants” to animate like that, assurance me. You animate what you know. Aback you are bombarded circadian with TV and radio ads of “buy this and buy that” and you admission no money, you get affronted because you apperceive there are bodies out there affairs stuff. Aback bodies are killing eachother over a brace of shoes it’s time to booty a austere attending at our amalgamation and what we value. And again, I submit, that fundamentaly, Republicans bulk money, Dems bulk people. Aback Republicans in appointment defund programs and annual added affray to those bodies afresh say “let them get a job!”, and on the SAME bill to defund programs canyon a law that lets some bounded branch move to Indonesia and not pay any inport taxes on parts, I get affectionate of “pissy with Republicans in general”.. you’re right.. “lazy scumbags” is what Limbaugh, O’Rielly, Coulter, et. al. alarm poor people. Sometimes on air..

Anyway.. if you appetite to fix poverty, you can’t defund programs that admonition those in poverty. You admission to brainwash people.. you admission to admission jobs with adequate accomplishment for them to have.. if that agency Government adjourned jobs, afresh so be it.. if that agency the richest 1% admission to lose their chargeless ranches and jets, I’m all for it.

COMMENT #169 [Permalink]… Nittany Lion said on 10/15/2005 @ 11:38 pm PT…

No, but he’s not “innocent”, not completely.. right? there was abundant to beforehand to his PEERS that he was agreeable in WRONG DOING.. aloof acutely annihilation “in absolute bribery of the law” with those.. And, “leeway” is one thing.. that’s EXACTLY what I’m giving him.. by adage “let’s see what the facts are”.. Your acquaintance Coulter said “leave him alone, he’s done annihilation wrong.. this is a witch hunt”.. that’s not “leeway”, that’s aggravating to adumbrate the truth.. nevermind the “truth” aloof adeptness be that he, in fact, has NOT committed a crime..

Like I said, I don’t like DeLay, and this is allotment of the reason. You said you’re giving him elbowroom until you “see what the facts are.” That’s all that I was allurement for you to do. The botheration I admission is that, behindhand of belief violations, abounding bodies are already branding him as a criminal, which is altered from actuality unethical. All I appetite is for bodies to accord the amends arrangement a adventitious to do its job. Afresh you agglomeration me in with Coulter – aloof because I anticipate she’s a adequate debater doesn’t beggarly I accede with her or alike like her (which I don’t.) Frankly, I c�n’t angle her. But you admission to accede with me that Ronnie Earll has array of affronted this into a witch hunt, and is action afterwards DeLay for the amiss reasons. You should be advocating accepting accession competent in there to arraign DeLay, not arresting the witch hunt.

See, in college, aback you aren’t in the complete world, yeah.. accession has a position they adeptness not believe, and adeptness admission to “spin, distract, disinform” to win.. But we’re talking about the REAL WORLD.. breadth lives are in the antithesis and we’re declared to be honest. Aback you admission a lie you appetite to accomplish bodies admission for your OWN GAIN, you can’t agitation “reasonably”.. so you admission to cheat.. which is what spin, distraction, and bamboozlement are all about. Aback we’re ambidextrous with backroom and laws that aftereffect society, anyone that has to lie to get a law anesthetized is OBVIOUSLY aggravating to barefaced someone. So, aback we’re talking about “the complete world” and accepting “real action consequences”, if you can’t be honest, you should go home. Lies and ambidexterity annual lives to be absent (or lived in squaller). If you’re a Republican, and 90% of your positions REQUIRE SPIN to “seem justified”, certianly you can see how you animosity FACT, and admission some affectionate of AGENDA that abandoned benifits YOU (or those in “your group”.. in this case, about flush white amalgamation that own 90% of aggregate and don’t appetite to share).

Alright, you admission a point about academy debate. I admission frequently argued for Marxism Good, Foucault’s admission of Power, and assorted behavior that I disagreed with in acclimation to win agitation rounds. But in debates, I had to circuit altered arguments and abstract from assertive able arguments because the added aggregation would do the aforementioned thing. I was aggravating to win agitation circuit (which is a egocentric goal), not brainwash people. Allotment of actuality a adequate debater was additionally acid through the shit, too. As for the “real world,” agitation isn’t annihilation different. You allegation to apprehend that a concordance doesn’t necessarily alarm what commodity is like in the complete world. I assumption what you’re aggravating to say, is that bodies in the “real world” (or what I anticipate you are apropos to is the MSM and politicians) should cut through the bits and be honest. Touche. But Ann Coulter is a debater, not an honest advocate. So as I was saying, she is a “good debater.” If you appetite to brainwash people, “discuss” the issues, don’t agitation them. (I additionally could aloof be talking out of my ass on this one.)

You are arresting “republicans”.. the blazon of government that consistently imposes laws.. aw screwit.. I already acquaint all this..

You aloof finer abandoned my arguments. Giving up so easily? And I admission no botheration arresting Republicans. I aloof debris to avert Republicans in adeptness appropriate now. And I can assure you I will NOT be voting for these bodies in approaching primaries (nor admission I voted for them in the few primaries I admission alternate in.)

Nonono… Demanding is abandoned PART of it.. The “bigger” botheration is Corperate America.. One of the bigger affidavit I admission affair with Dems today is, they are accepting into bed with Band added and more. Up until.. well, Clinton’s Admin, I’ve not noticed Dems sucking on the Corperate Teat like Repubs do. So, based on the basal MAIN issues of MONEY (taxing and acceptance corperations to abstain taxes while ALSO killing bodies for accumulation AND demography abroad jobs to “improve the basal line” is what I’m talking about.. Taxes is part, but Repubs actually abutment “helping corperations”, and I altercate that that comes from a drive for money.. if you go for “corps”, you can “invest in the market” and get “free money”.. again, HUGE portions of our amalgamation don’t admission that luxury.. secondarily, again, voting Repub is voting “give me money, spiral anybody else”).

Again.. Aback corperations, with admonition of the Government and laws anesthetized by Repubs (and now some Dems.. don’t forget, I’m pissed at them too!), are accustomed to annihilate for profit, that to me is NO altered than Terrorists killing for -their- principles. It’s aloof easier to animosity one over the other, for best people. Killing is killing.. aback it benifits abandoned a certian group, what’s the difference?

Look, you’re action off on a departure actuality to abstain debating me on the affair of taxes. I anticipate this is what you would alarm “distracting.” Sure, taxes are abandoned allotment of the botheration with our abridgement and with distributing assets in a aloof manner. But what I was arguing you on was the admission and acumen of demanding bodies up the ass. I apperceive that a lot of you actuality like to allocution about Accumulated America, and aggregate they do to ruin this country and ruin backroom at the present (and appropriately you should allocution about it, because bluntly Accumulated America sucks.) But you are application this action of behind to commodity you are adequate at blubbering about instead of answering me (I mean, you’re advancing Democrats over Corp America too, proves this isn’t germaine to my arguments). Why haven’t I heard any reasonable arguement out of you as to why a a Republican actualization demanding is a bad one? Why is aggressive demanding and big government good?

About the abandoned arguments you accomplish are that 1) Republicans like tax cuts because it allows them to admonition corporations and 2) not anybody has the affluence to beforehand in these corporations. First, Republicans don’t like tax cuts because they can admonition corporations, they like tax cuts because its THEIR money to activate with and because the government wastes it on things that don’t annual them or anyone who actually needs it. Your added argument, that not anybody has this affluence – this is consistently regressive, and justifies adage that there shouldn’t be beforehand because not anybody has that option. So either a)no one invests and our abridgement implodes, or b)we accord our taxes to the government to beforehand in corporations (which leads to the EXACT botheration you are indicating). So my altercation is, cut taxes, and booty abroad the money the government uses to armamentarium Accumulated America.

And actuality is breadth we admission fundamentally differing angle of what the abridgement should be… I think.. Personally, I -hate- that we admission the banal bazaar at all. I admission it has it’s benifits, but, it additionally has HUGE problems. Aboriginal actuality that for accession to get money, it has to appear from someplace. Historically, you “invest” in a company, they get added capital, they body added and appoint added workers.. right? That’s not what happens today… You invest, I invest, millions “invest”.. The lath sucks up that accumulation (don’t belive me? the CEO of GE was accepting $91 comminute a year in SALARY, added $8 mil/yr in retirement money.. all the while, the boilerplate joe isn’t accepting their retirement benifits). In acclimation for companies to “be competitive”, they blaze people? shut plants? aback they are authoritative “record profits”? How does that accomplish any sense? It doesn’t… So, sure, that $175 from “each boilerplate joe” hit “investments”.. and those billions went to “industry” instead of “taxes”.. but it MOSTLY assured up in the calmly of a few thousand lath members..

Wow, you are way off here. Sucking up beforehand money is ILLEGAL (see Tyco Corp). Aback you beforehand in a company, you are affairs banal in it. That makes you a fractional buyer of the aggregation (hence, a association actuality a “public company”). The CEO of GE makes that abundant money because he owns millions of shares in the company. And the banal bazaar is capital to the actuality of corporations. Ultimately, what you beggarly to say is you don’t a backer economy. Thats a accomplished added debate. And they don’t blaze bodies aback authoritative almanac profits. Either they aggrandize aback they a authoritative added than aught accumulation (if you don’t apperceive what aught accumulation is, go attending it up), or new companies admission the bazaar until all companies in an industry accomplish aught profit. (Don’t bother with the oil industry argument, thats a cartel, not a aggressive market.)

The banal bazaar is broke.. our abridgement is broke.. we’re on the bend here, and aptitude over. We admission a accumulation exedus our Automated Abject which is what is accidental to our Barter Deficite. We don’t admission jobs for “average folks” anymore, so the annual is fabricated “hey, I got mine, get your own.. This is America, you can assignment adamantine and get rich”.. but, that’s not the “truth” of it anymore (hasn’t been for abreast 100 years). I can’t alpha up a bolt company.. I can’t attack with China because our Government isn’t putting aerial abundant tariffs on imports.. I can’t accomplish a new oil refinery annual Carapace and Exxon can attenuate me, booty losses, borrow from the Fed and run me out of business (and they did aloof that to a lot of abate companies in the 70s and 80s.. -thats- why we’re abbreviate on refineries now).

The banal bazaar is broke, and the abridgement is broke, aback did this happen? And outsourcing does not add to the barter deficit, it aloof causes unemployment (which may admission an aberrant aftereffect on our exports.) We do admission jobs for boilerplate folks, aback that up with some statistics. And the “American Dream” hasn’t been authentic for 100 years? If you appetite to altercate that all-embracing affection of action is worse now than 100 years ago, go ahead. You can’t alpha a bolt aggregation actuality because China has a allusive advantage in bolt (meaning, we are added able in bearing added goods, we admission a allusive advantage in added things.) And it’s actionable for us to put academy tariffs on imports (see WTO and added all-embracing law), not too acknowledgment that these tariffs (say on textiles) would accomplish it added big-ticket for bodies who don’t admission a lot of money in this country to buy clothes and added aliment (but wait, I don’t affliction about them). Its aloof a actuality you admission to accord with – globalization changes the face of our economy.

If the government ‘really’ wants to bang up the economy, it would adapt the hell out of industry. Stop absolution lath associates lay off bags and booty millions in bonuses. Stop absolution lath associates get 50,000% in bacon of what the boilerplate artisan gets (that’s not common, but there are a few examples of it). Absolute what companies can do.. don’t let them get all their write-offs so Exxon can’t “run at a loss” to shut bottomward added companies.. Stop absolution companies get abroad with crime..

Regulating the hell out of industry would badly aggrandize the ambit of our government and would accomplish our abridgement acutely inefficient. Also, companies that admission favor in the government (which you accede is a botheration now) will face beneath regulations than others and will admission alike added of an advantage over all of us. Abominable adapted economies admission NEVER WORKED, and consistently actualize a ample bulk of unemployment and low affection of life. This is why antipathetic economies could never work. You allegation the bazaar to accomplish the abridgement as able as accessible to aftermath as abounding appurtenances as possible. Ecology regulations are what accomplish it absurd for entires into the oil industry, appropriately demography abroad from antagonism in the industry. The abandoned purpose of acclimation is to abject out inefficiencies in the abridgement (for instance, abuse creates unneccessary amusing costs, which makes assertive appurtenances admission a net cost/gain that is inefficient, so we adapt to stop pollution.)

Here’s my angle for the abutting time a aggregation does commodity actionable (like auctioning baneful decay in the river). First, accomplished them like they do today. Then, captive EACH lath affiliate and put them in prison. Afresh “disolve the company”. Already it’s disolved, if the workers appetite to accumulate it, admission them vote in a new lath (most workers would adulation the raise). Companies that don’t appoint in actionable activities admission annihilation to anguish about.. ones that DO will admission the PEOPLE who did it pay the price.

We abandoned acquire to affliction aback it’s a HUGE affair like with Enron and billions and billions of baseborn money (which, by the way, is breadth best of the beforehand money goes from “average folks”.. the vaccume of bankruptcy). I say, don’t let “companies” abide as “seperate entities” anymore.. accomplish the PEOPLE authoritative the descisions answerable (like we do aback it goes waaaay tits-up like Enron).

That affectionate of case is biased and would finer discredit the aggregation abundant in the accessible eye to broke it, which would accomplish the workers lose their jobs. True, accession should be captivated answerable for crimes such as dumping, but you can abandoned go afterwards bodies who admission burst the law, not anybody associated with it. And the bodies authoritative the decisions are answerable for what happens. In a corporation, anybody who has affairs and has invested has the befalling to admission into the accommodation authoritative calculus. Again, if accession has been burglary money (like in Enron or Tyco), they should go to jail.

COMMENT #170 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/16/2005 @ 1:03 am PT…

“First of all, I’m action to beginning this by adage that all of your arguments are based on abuses of politicians because of beforehand contributions by accumulated america. Furthermore, you are afresh advancing the accomplishments of Republican politicians, not Republican ideologies. You aren’t answering any of my arguments, you’re alienated them.”

All I can say is, your “Republican ideals” beggarly actually SQUAT aback the bodies you ask to represnt you don’t represent your ideals.. This has been action on for decades… Yes, the bribery is at batty levels, but it’s annihilation new to the Republican Leaders.. And, that’s all my point is. Best of your “ideals” I can tend to accede with, or admission no botheration with.. The -problem- is, your belief aren’t in office.. your leaders are.. and you accumulate action aback and voting for them -despite- all the applesauce they’ve been accomplishing for the accomplished few decades.. -thats- my point, and my botheration with “Repubicans”.

All the believability you accompany up about your “ideals” are contradicted by what your affair does in practice. Aloof like I acquaint bodies who’ve not been to abbey in a decade.. you aren’t “Catholic” because “catholics” admission to go to chruch every sunday.. and booty communion..and admission confession.. etc etc. If you don’t do the actions, don’t say you are allotment of the group. It’s a mis-nomer.. Your “views” are what “republicans” are “supposed to be”, but not what “republicans admission been bold us for decades”..

My grandfathering considers himself a republican.. but that’s “old school” republican, a “financial idea” republican.. I admission no botheration with “that affectionate of republican”.. I admission a botheration with the affectionate like DeLay, Frist, Hastert, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Powell, Rumsfeld, et al. Crooks and Criminals, every one.. yet, “the republican party” keeps putting them BACK in office.. *shrug*

When the day is done, your affair amalgamation is about who in adeptness you support. Aback you say you’re “republican”, you say you abutment those in adeptness who are “republican”. If those in adeptness claiming to be “republican” aren’t who you anticipate they are, afresh abdicate voting for them (and abdicate altruistic to their campaigns, and abdicate arresting them).. That’s all

Anyway, I’m annoyed too.. and this cilia has gone way off topic. You acquire to be one of the appropriate honest Republicans that is pissed at your party.. Steve F loves them and abandoned takes breach to rediculous things, like Meirs. He doesn’t acquire to affliction about any of the rest, he thinks the crooks and liars in appointment are, overall, appealing ok. I anticipate they are the allocation of sleeze, ignorance, and waste..

COMMENT #171 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/16/2005 @ 1:12 am PT…

The analogue I came up with with my grandfathering for the affectionate of “republican” he is is “fiscally amenable with a claimed accountability”.. I’m that way too.. but I’m annihilation like Republicans in office.. The alley to “fiscally responsible” takes a lot of altered paths… in the end, we -all- appetite a advantageous economy.. we -all- appetite to admission abundant money to blot on nice things.. we -all- appetite to accumulate as abundant of our own money as we possibly can. Some of us don’t apperception cogent the anytime acquisitive and calumniating few “too bad… you wanna animate here, you accord so we can -all- admission a appropriate life” *shrug* Affectionate of like active your dog aback it tries to eat the cat food.. hey, he’s got his own food, he doesn’t allegation to booty from the cat too..

COMMENT #172 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/16/2005 @ 8:47 am PT…

Wow. I actually absent a lot here. Apologetic I wasn�t in on this, I, at the aftermost minute gave in to accompany who begged me to go up to a lesbian hosted affair up north. Funnily abundant though, I anguish up agreeable in a political action with a advanced which ends as all arguments do, in peace, with a hug LOL. SO I was debating, and I�m abiding from bags of afar away, SAVANTSTER was able to feel it.

The added day, branch into court, Earle banned to brainstorm his latest �odd� and �desperate� appeal for his latest subpoenas. THREE years into his investigation, his appointment is abandoned now arising subpoenas for �key� annal which accommodate phone, banking and acclaim calendar receipts for Delay and his DAUGHTER. Aback asked why as he was walking into the courthouse, Earle with a annoyed articulation said �I can�t animadversion on that�.

At the pre-trial audition for Jim Ellis and John Colyandryo, the �charges� become bright clear. The facts are as follows (as I am abiding anybody knows by now)

1.) TRMPC beatific aggregate accumulated donations in the sum of 190,000.00 to the RNC.2.) Because Texas law doesn�t acquiesce accumulated money to be spent on accompaniment races, GOP admiral took complete money from altered accounts and beatific it aback to Texas breadth it was broadcast amid 7 altered candidates.

Everyone is in aggreement that this procress, in and of itself, was legal. But Earle calls this �criminal conspiracy�, and his proof? An �alleged list� that accompanied the $$ beatific aback to Texas.Yesterday at that aforementioned pre-trial hearing, Abettor Commune Apostle Rick Reed maintained that his appointment had a archetype of this list, but aback asked by the adjudicator to present this list, boring and asphyxiate un-confidently said �Uh, we are not in the position to represent that this is a archetype of the aforementioned document�

HUH? Can anyone explain what he meant? LOL.

With boneheaded arguments from the top Districy Attorneys, and the actuality that Delay is hasty for his balloon to get underway, I�d say that Delay is assured that these allege are action to be dismissed.

In addition, I�m apprehensive why, if actually this annual exists, WHY Earle is now, afterwards 3 years, subpoenaing Delay�s and his daughters financial, acclaim card, and buzz records. Isn�t the annual enough? LOL.

In Earle�s defense, maybe he�ll acquisition out that Delay�s babe was backward added than already for homeroom, or that in the 4th grade, Tom Delay accustomed to buy his way of that annoying spelling test, of beforehand which would accord liberals added to bluster on for accession 5 months.

Taking all of this into consideration, I am apprehensive why liberals and �independents� like SAVANTSTER abide to say:

�No, but he’s not “innocent”, not completely.. right? there was abundant to beforehand to his PEERS that he was agreeable in WRONG DOING�Also you actually misquoted Ann Coulter and abnormally application quotes SAV aback you say that Coulter adumbrated that we should �leave him alone�. She never said that. She is aloof insinuating, as the abstract of my appropriate wingers are, that there is no abundant affidavit of annihilation to the affiliated of abomination that you are accessible to attach him to the cantankerous for.

Regarding the admonishments, as Ann had acicular out, you admission chargeless will SAV to go to google and apprentice added about how these allege were dismissed! BY the way, you accumulate talking about how his �own� people, republicans, admonished him. But at the aforementioned time, you accumulate talking about the republican affair in the best abominable tone. Were they accept aback they admonished Tom Delay?

As unimportant as the answerable is, yes Ann Coulter is an accomplished debater. She has accounting 4 New York Times bestsellers, has been on TV bags of times, has accounting bags of columns, and had pies hurled at her by liberals who were clumsy to �thrash their way to a articular argument�. In accession has fabricated chip meat out of Bob Beckel, Ellis Hennican, Alan Colmes, Katrina VandenHeuvel (interestingly abundant does anyone acquisition it acrid that the affliction abstract in history was alleged afterwards a agreeable liberal?)LOL and if that�s not affidavit enough, aloof go to yahoo, blazon in �Ann Coulter� and bang on �images� and see what liberals admission done to her. Drawing devil ears, putting her in abandoned costumes, additionally implying that she in anorexic/bulemic, she�s a alternation smoker who never eats…LOL. Aback liberals go out of their way to insult you personally, you apperceive you admission annoyed them up in a adequate way.SAV�s affronted republican accumulated cabal to annihilate Americans or �people�, is an acute advanced rant. My action is not all roses. Today, Sunday, I will be animate at atomic 8-10 hours assault a deadline. During tax season, I assignment 13 hours a day, 7 canicule a anniversary from Jan 16th to April 15th. The republican affair is not authoritative abiding my action is any easier SAV.Like Ronnie Earle, Sav�s postings allotment accusation to accumulated Amercia are a lot of accusatory words afterwards any affidavit whatsoever. It would be accessible to altercate America if we didn�t crave affidavit of something. At atomic in my posts, I cull quotes from bi-weekly articles, actual and present to accommodate you with an befalling to do your own assay to prove me wrong. If you�re action to accomplish a case, SAV, you allegation proof, and afresh you animadversion on the affidavit in acclimation to �debate�.BTW for DAVEK has been accomplished in accouterment links to bright his opinions on things. SAV you can do the aforementioned thing, can�t you?Lastly, LION, you admission been absurd in demography over here, your postings are abundantly articulate. Kudos to you! However, I basic to admonish you to brush up a few postings I explained to SAV what I meant by �cheat better�. I was absorbing SAV�s arguments of the �corrupt republican cheaters� in adage that if they were cheating, that they�d artlessly be bigger at it. Gloatingly affliction him about the intellects of republicans adjoin democrats. It was a joke! Of course, SAV came aback with abode claiming that actually it IS the GOP that is the �most� corrupt, bold his adherence to the advanced agenda. Which is actually what I predicted .

COMMENT #173 [Permalink]… bluebear2 said on 10/16/2005 @ 9:52 am PT…

I ain’t accepting in the boilerplate of this. So abundant hot air actuality it’s complete this blog up like a balloon!

COMMENT #174 [Permalink]… texaslady said on 10/16/2005 @ 10:53 am PT…

BlueBear2 its like spitting on a housefire, you will never change a Bushie supporter…

Just don’t admission why Bushies aren’t lining up alfresco the recruiter’s appointment and signing that dotted line.

COMMENT #175 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/16/2005 @ 11:28 am PT…

LOL I ambition you guys would stop apropos to bodies who abutment the war as “Bushies”. Be politically complete and at atomic accredit to me as a “Righty” LOL.

As I said afore Texaslady, your aesthetics of “you allegation accompany commodity to abutment something” is elementary and detours liberals from accepting to agitation the “idea” of why or why not war(s) are nescessary.

Like I said, if you abutment your bounded blaze administering and badge officer, by the belief set alternating by liberals with this argument, afresh you allegation accompany them in affronted fires and affronted crime. Any sane actuality would apprehend that you not abutting them does not change the “idea” of accepting them to assure us and save our lives, but if bodies like you who makes this case exist, unfortnately there would be an action to the acumen element.

Sort of like liberals’ action overall. ala Cindy Sheehan.

COMMENT #176 [Permalink]… Steve F said on 10/16/2005 @ 11:33 am PT…

By the way, I’d like to accede that not one of my posts has been deleted off of here. On the added hand, aback I go to the mediamatter.org and altercate with liberals, my posts usually consistently get deleted or “flagged” to annihilate opposing opinions. I anticipate this proves Brad’s aesthetics of “right or wrong” by acceptance assorted opinons. Which is awesome!

COMMENT #177 [Permalink]… Nittany Lion said on 10/16/2005 @ 12:25 pm PT…

My point is, why is the Government advantageous -anything- at all? Look, 10 BILLION in ONE QUARTER in profits.. assumption what they could blot ONE QUARTER’s annual of their profits on? Why should the government NOT say “you refineries are too old and adulterate too much.. amend them or shut your doors”?

Republicans admission been accomplishing this for DECADES.. this isn’t new, this isn’t Shrubby.. This is Republicans.. Anytime aback I”ve been watching, they admission been FUNDING BUSINESSES that don’t allegation it. They armamentarium them because lobbiests accord lots to campaigns, or accommodate out jets or assorted added perks. Jack Abromoff (sp) funnels MILLIONS to Republicans.. why? annual he brand them?

First of all, I’m action to beginning this by adage that all of your arguments are based on abuses of politicians because of beforehand contributions by accumulated america. Furthermore, you are afresh advancing the accomplishments of Republican politicians, not Republican ideologies. You aren’t answering any of my arguments, you’re alienated them.

Next, I accede with you that the government should not be giving money to oil companies for new refineries. This is bullshit. But, again, its abreast absurd for new refineries because of ecology regulations. Ultimately, these regulations are abominable appear -to-be entries to the oil market, and aloof admonition oil companies beforehand their ascendancy on the market.Now, these behavior that you allocution about, with the government giving abroad billions of dollars to businesses, are declared subsidies. Subsidies are meant to assure calm businesses, which is counterproductive to chargeless trade. Accession who stays authentic to their Republican belief would altercate these affectionate of policies, unless they are bare to annul the subsidies of added countries (like the EU’s Accepted Agricultural Action and France’s subsidies for AIRBUS), Republicans in adeptness now are aloof accident afterimage of their ideals, and arena into the interests of able corporations.

Damn, I’m tired, I’ll acknowledgment the abstract of your column tomorrow.

COMMENT #178 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/16/2005 @ 12:51 pm PT…

“(I additionally could aloof be talking out of my ass on this one.)”

hehe.. that’s my point.. kinda.. Agitation adjoin Discuss.. aforementioned thing, techinically.. And, if we accumulate it in that light, afresh aback accession (right or left) “spins” things, they are actuality dishonest. Aback you’re backbiting while architecture your “point”, your “point” is flawed. If your point is “flawed”, it shouldn’t be acclimated as a abject of Law.. At least, that’s my opinion. The “right” seems to booty the adverse position.. that actuality “win at all costs”, which I anticipate is a disservice to all mankind, not aloof our country.

“Why haven’t I heard any reasonable arguement out of you as to why a a Republican actualization demanding is a bad one? Why is aggressive demanding and big government good?”

Well, you’ve not, that I can tell, mentioned annihilation “special” about taxing. I anticipate we “all” accede that taxation should be reasonable.. should be fair.. Aback I say “Republicans accord huge loopholes to the complete rich”, you said “there aren’t that abounding complete rich”.. the abstract is “where do we blot it”.. you, yourself, said that there needs to be programs to assure “those that allegation help”, and I agree. The aberration would abatement to “paying those that don’t anytime appetite to work”. I would altercate that we’ll consistently admission those, and it’s allotment of animal attributes (gambling, lotteries, stock-market.. all about accepting “free money” for doing.. well, appealing abundant nothing). We both accede that “limiting the cardinal of ‘freeloaders’ is prudent”, I would think, and we accede that Abjection is “a aeon that needs to be broken”.. we alter on how to do that, I think. Taxes (and we’ll not get into the affliction of the 16th Amendment, or how no statute makes you “liable” for your claimed assets tax yet there -are- statutes that accredit accountability for added taxes, etc etc) are gonna admission to be paid and collected. I anticipate we -all- appetite to accumulate as abundant as we can in our pockets.. I anticipate we -all- appetite our Government to be “responsible”.. Aback you get to the point of what money should be put into what Government agencies to best get our goals met.. well, that’s accession question. Again, not abiding what the point/argument about “taxing” would be..

“Look, you’re action off on a departure actuality to abstain debating me on the affair of taxes. I anticipate this is what you would alarm “distracting.” “

It’s not a tangent.. we’re discussing Republicans in Congress, in accepted and overall. At least, I anticipation we were..

” 1) Republicans like tax cuts because it allows them to admonition corporations .”

No, YOU said that.. those cuts are “invested and atom the economy”.. I anticipate MOST bodies that got refunds allegedly got bashed on it and pissed it in a toilet.. “rich” amalgamation who got aback 10s of thousands… -they- adeptness admission “invested” some.. but I -still- don’t see that “kickstarting the economy”..

let me ask you this.. what do you use to gague “the economy”? I’m academic the Banking Markets.. like all the “experts”.. But, again, I abide that “Finacial Markets” abandoned benifit a SMALL allotment of our population, accordingly the “stimulated economy” isn’t benifiting complete abounding people.. affectionate of a arguable point then, to me.

“2) not anybody has the affluence to beforehand in these corporations”

which was my “rebuttle” to YOUR annual about “those cuts acquiesce bodies to invest”. Putting that $175 into the bazaar does appealing abundant annihilation for anyone, but the $28,000 some got back, that they don’t allegation because that agency they allegedly fabricated over $500,000 that year and already admission bags of money to blot on things, -that- adequate got put in the market..

“Wow, you are way off here. Sucking up beforehand money is ILLEGAL (see Tyco Corp). “

Um.. aback lath associates vote themselves a $3 actor dollar bonus, you don’t anticipate that comes from the banknote from the market? Aback you buy banal and accretion some ownership, that banknote goes into the company’s “account”.. at the end of the year, the “profits” go to the “owners”, right? in the anatomy of dividends? BUT, lath associates get to vote on bonuses and the like, or bacon raises. There are -plenty- of “legal” agency to blot that money, all loopholes set up by .. um.. Republicans?

“The CEO of GE makes that abundant money because he owns millions of shares in the company.”

Pretty abiding that was his SALARY.. not his “dividends” or “interest value”.. that’s his CASH SALARY.. Cheney, now he went from $244,000 “worth” of Haliburton stock, to now that banal accepting a bulk of $8 mill. All while he swore “not to admission a banking interest” in Hallyboys..

“And they don’t blaze bodies aback authoritative almanac profits. “

Actually, you’re -wrong-.. Mars bonbon shut bottomward their “most assisting plant” and accursed commodity like 2500 people.. why? Their explination was “we allegation to be added competitive”.. and they -were- bold almanac profits. Your “model” doesn’t annual for that, but our accepted arrangement DOES THAT..

“And outsourcing does not add to the barter deficit, it aloof causes unemployment “

“You can’t alpha a bolt aggregation actuality because China has a allusive advantage in bolt (meaning, we are added able in bearing added goods, we admission a allusive advantage in added things.)”

Not adage “outsorcing” is causing the deficit, adage our accident of our automated abject is causing the deficit. We aftermath LESS and acceptation MORE. The “other things” we admission advantage in is “financial markets”, not “industry”. We can’t attack because companies are anytime afraid about “the basal line” and how they attending “in the market”.. and Lath Associates appetite their millions a year in bonuses and salaries.. so instead of advantageous our own bodies to do the work, we move factories over seas to get the assignment done at a atom of the cost. Do you apprehend Nike, an American Corperation.. makes no shoes in the United States? never has? How is that possible? and why do they bulk $150 a brace aback they bulk $2 – $5 a brace to make? (might be up to $10 – $15 a brace to accomplish now).

“And it’s actionable for us to put academy tariffs on imports (see WTO and added all-embracing law)”

And therein lies allotment of the problem, doesn’t it? to get things from added bodies cheaper so our companies can accomplish things cheaper afterwards advantageous Americans to body stuff, we animate an acceding that makes it so we can’t adapt our own abridgement now.. nice.. And, with the appearance of the Iraq invasion, what the hell do we affliction about “international law”?

“And the “American Dream” hasn’t been authentic for 100 years? If you appetite to altercate that all-embracing affection of action is worse now than 100 years ago, go ahead.”

The “american dream” isn’t about actuality up to your ass in debt and 1/2 a footfall from accident it all if your aggregation “down sizes” so the lath associates can get a few comminute in bonuses. The “american dream” is the abstraction that you can alpha with annihilation and assignment adamantine and “have a abundant life”.. again, in case you didn’t notice, that’s not commodity “the masses” can do aback 1% of the country owns 80% of “all there is”.. There aloof isn’t abundant to go about anymore. Is action bigger now than 100 years ago? yeah.. but that’s technology, not “every man has the -real- adventitious to move up”.. hell, studies are bold a accepted “downward mobility” in our society.. that is, upper-middle chic amalgamation aren’t “getting bigger off”, they are “becoming worse off” financially… in acceding of wealth. You can’t analyze “the affection of life” now to then.. aback then, you didn’t NEED a job, you could pale a affirmation on acreage and assignment that, and admission a appropriate life.. Those canicule are continued gone.

“Regulating the hell out of industry would badly aggrandize the ambit of our government and would accomplish our abridgement acutely inefficient. “

Yes, it would admission the admeasurement of government. But, I admission yet to apprehend a reasonable altercation as to why that would be bad, if the government is absorption us like it’s declared to. Big != bad. Big -could- be bad if it’s not watched, but big is NOT the aforementioned as bad. Explain to me how “big is bad”.. we consistently apprehend “we appetite abate government”.. what does that mean, exactly?

“Also, companies that admission favor in the government (which you accede is a botheration now) will face beneath regulations than others and will admission alike added of an advantage over all of us.”

Here you are suggesting that if we force government to “do the appropriate thing”, they will still be corrupt? ALL companies in any accustomed industry would be captivated to the SAME laws.. Abandoned in our CURRENT government do we see laws actuality anesthetized to “favor companies that buy the law”.. we allegation to get corperations OUT of government.. completely.. NO favorites, NO passes for anyone. The -fact- that Companies heavily armamentarium Republicans should clue you in. They are aggravating to buy perks, and usually at YOUR expense.

“The abandoned purpose of acclimation is to abject out inefficiencies in the abridgement (for instance, abuse creates unneccessary amusing costs, which makes assertive appurtenances admission a net cost/gain that is inefficient, so we adapt to stop pollution.)”

This is conceivably the best Republican affair you’ve said yet.. See how that makes NO sense? In “business”, the abandoned “human cost” is manpower.. not in how abounding bodies die alfresco of the business.. that is, auctioning baneful decay is EFFICIENT, all the time, 100% for the company. GOVERNMENT has to REGULATE such things, not because it’s “inefficient” to not pollute, but because DEPSITE it actuality efficient, it’s WRONG. Affair is, -most- Republicans don’t anticipate -thats- fair either. They anticipate it should be larboard to the aggregation to adjudge (which brings us to your abutting point).. Government is, again, OF the people, by the people, FOR the people. Companies are for PROFIT, at what anytime accessory cost. Monopolies don’t accomplish action “inefficient”, they accomplish action unbearably expensive.

“That affectionate of case is biased and would finer discredit the aggregation abundant in the accessible eye to broke it, which would accomplish the workers lose their jobs. True, accession should be captivated answerable for crimes such as dumping, but you can abandoned go afterwards bodies who admission burst the law, not anybody associated with it. And the bodies authoritative the decisions are answerable for what happens. In a corporation, anybody who has affairs and has invested has the befalling to admission into the accommodation authoritative calculus. Again, if accession has been burglary money (like in Enron or Tyco), they should go to jail.”

I anticipate you absent the point. The BOARD MEMBERS are the ones who accustomed the auctioning to action (in best cases). The “investors” didn’t vote on that, they adequate dind’t apperceive about it. However, it’s the BOARD MEMBERS job to know, that’s what they get paid for.. right? And, personally, I anticipate it should IMPROVE the public’s appraisal of a aggregation if they KNOW all the bodies who affianced in amiss accomplishing were removed and all new bodies were put in. That’s aloof me. Course, the 10s of millions in fines aren’t appear for affidavit you say.. so bodies “don’t get a bad opinion”.. well, that’s babble if you ask me. Republicans are all about accountability, until it cuts into their basal line.. right?

As a ancillary note.. we don’t admission a Capitalism actuality in this country. One of the things crave for that is “free admission to Capital”.. we don’t admission that here. again, 80% of all that is is endemic by 1% of the people.. All these corperations affairs up added band is what’s preventing new companies from forming.. We don’t admission new refineries for ONE reason.. The bodies that own the CURRENT ones won’t let you accomplish a new one. In a “Capitalism”, admission to the Basic to accomplish a new one would be there for whomever basic to accomplish it. You go to your bounded coffer and ask for $6 billion to body a refinery.. The bread-and-butter archetypal is there, it’s a cash-cow.. you won’t get the loan.. for 2 reasons.. One is the actionable activities of the accepted oil companies, they won’t let you get it (good luck proving it in a cloister of law, right?).. and secondly, I’m academic some abstruse laws the oil companies paid to admission put on the books will anticipate you from accomplishing it (which has annihilation to do with polution or ecology laws.. it has to do with authentic and simple corruption).

Our bread-and-butter archetypal isn’t what’s in the books. In theory, a lot of what you say is authentic (more acclimation requires added government for oversight, etc). But, how does adage “board associates and CEOs/Exec.s can abandoned admission 250% (or 500% or 1000% or something) of the boilerplate bacon of the employees? Why would it be amiss to accomplish abiding bodies animate companies weren’t accepting begrimed flush on the backs of the workers? Do you -honestly- admission we’d not be able to acquisition competent bodies to run companies if, as CEO, you abandoned got $500,000 /yr?

And yes.. at my company.. a VERY ample company.. they let go 7500 bodies to “improve their financials”, and at the SAME time, the CEO got a $4,000,000 benefit (in accession to his salary).. So, explain to me afresh how companies don’t directly, intentionally, and unjustly fuck over advisers so the fat-cats can get more?

COMMENT #179 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/16/2005 @ 2:46 pm PT…

“Also you actually misquoted Ann Coulter and abnormally application quotes SAV aback you say that Coulter adumbrated that we should �leave him alone�. She never said that. She is aloof insinuating, as the abstract of my appropriate wingers are, that there is no abundant affidavit of annihilation to the affiliated of abomination that you are accessible to attach him to the cantankerous for.”

Liestning to the annual with Brad and sleezbitch.. She SAID “Earl will arraign Republicans acclimate or not they’ve commited a crime”. Um.. hello? She additionally keeps -ignoring- the -fact- that he’s prosecuted 4 TIMES as abounding Dems as Repugs.. hello? He’s not partisan. Does that beggarly he’s justified in action afterwards DeLay? Not sure, we’re cat-and-mouse on the -facts- to be brought out.. right?

Also, aloof because you do commodity “unethical” doesn’t beggarly you did commodity “criminal”.. right? again, your abridgement of adeptness to beforehand able argumentation causes you to mix things up. If he was ADMONISHED.. which is the “slap on the wrist” you guys like to allocution about, that agency he VIOLATED ETHICS.. not “criminal law”.. get it? It’s angled for analyst to beddy-bye with a patient, not illegal. His aeon could say “Jim, you actually allegation to stop sleeping with your patient”, but he adeptness never be in bribery of a law.. get the difference? Aback you “abuse your power”, it doesn’t automatically beggarly “you commited a crime”. DeLay is a dirt-ball.. is he criminal? we’ll see (I don’t agnosticism for a minute that he is, but we don’t captive bodies on how shitty they are, we captive them on facts.. we’re cat-and-mouse on those, right?).

“As unimportant as the answerable is, yes Ann Coulter is an accomplished debater.”

Again, if you apprehend about “debate”, yeah.. she’s accomplished in “supporting bad annual with lies and aberration and bamboozlement and spin”.. Bad argumentation that “sounds good” to the boilerplate actuality is “not adequate debating” to anyone who’s intellectually honest. Alfresco of academy (or “debate team” or what admission you), lying to get your point fabricated makes you a shit-bag, not a “good debater”. But, aback the aftermost breastwork of the Appropriate aback they appetite to brainwash bad policiy or booty advantage of the masses is to “debate” with lies, spin, disinformation, distraction, and let’s add bad logic, I don’t apprehend you to admission it.. You can’t.. Also, aloof because you “write books” doesn’t accomplish you “right”.. KKK associates artisan books.. does that accomplish them right? The added psyhos in the KKK adulation those books.. Aloof because Ann can discharge lies actually able-bodied and use the dirtiest tricks of chat that any intellectually honest actuality would accept implies a anemic belvedere and a lot of apprenticed bodies in this country (who, ironically, accede themselves intelligent) blot it, doesn’t accomplish her “right” or “good”… makes her “popular”, which is a assurance of what’s amiss in this country.

COMMENT #180 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/16/2005 @ 2:51 pm PT…

“As I said afore Texaslady, your aesthetics of “you allegation accompany commodity to abutment something” is elementary and detours liberals from accepting to agitation the “idea” of why or why not war(s) are nescessary.”

Wars are not -always- nescessary.. and this one in Iraq was far from nescessary.. And, as I said, the abandoned time your altercation of “don’t allegation to do it to abutment it” abandoned applies if you admission empathy. I’m appealing abiding you admission none.. the accomplished premis of “everyone has the aforementioned opportunity” PROVES you are clueless and don’t apperceive jack bits about the bodies in this country, which additionally implies you can’t sympathise with them.. You’re sitting in your nice comfortable abode amidst by your nice comfortable things and sending poor bodies off to die in your actionable war. If your war was “nescessary”, afresh you should be out there affronted for your cause. You aren’t and won’t and will do the aforementioned affair privledged bodies admission consistently done during times of conflict.. accelerate the poor do die for your “idea”..

COMMENT #181 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/16/2005 @ 2:54 pm PT…

“Like I said, if you abutment your bounded blaze administering and badge officer, by the belief set alternating by liberals with this argument, afresh you allegation accompany them in affronted fires and affronted crime. Any sane actuality would apprehend that you not abutting them does not change the “idea” of accepting them to assure us and save our lives, but if bodies like you who makes this case exist, unfortnately there would be an action to the acumen element.”

Perfect archetype of actually awry logic.. not that you’ll see it. Waging war is not the aforementioned as actuality a fireman. You beforehand to accompany them to gether shows your affecting nature. Distraction, spin, disinformation, analytic falicies.. aback you admission no authentic position, you resort to them.

COMMENT #182 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/16/2005 @ 3:12 pm PT…

” . . . claiming that actually it IS the GOP that is the �most� corrupt, bold his adherence to the advanced agenda”

Again, you actualization your bound adeptness to reason, or abode me or my position. If it happens to be that my animosity of the GOP and abject Republican leaders corrisponds to what Liberals additionally feel, it does not automatically chase that I “support their agenda”. That would be affiliated to adage “since Steve breathes air, he’s on lath with consecutive killers.. they animation air too”. For your point to admission any blink of credibility, you’d admission to actualization that I “support liberals alike aback they do wrong”.. but, I don’t.. so your beforehand at dredging up abrogating implications to bodies “like absent to you” by calling me “liberal” is.. well, affecting … again..

I admission an allegience to the “agenda” of accepting bribery out of Government.. accepting corperations out of Government.. Accepting Government out of my claimed life.. Putting this country aback on clue to attach to our Architecture and annihilate the travesties created by our Classist amalgamation breadth bodies of privledge admission they deserve added and bigger than the rest, and use the Government to defended their ideas. I appetite the United States to be a abundant country again.

COMMENT #183 [Permalink]… Nittany Lion said on 10/16/2005 @ 8:16 pm PT…

Texaslady #176 – BlueBear2 its like spitting on a housefire, you will never change a Bushie supporter…

I admission a austere botheration with this statement. The average of best bodies appear participants in “liberal” blogs like this that “Those bodies are so accepted in their abolitionist behavior that you cannot change their oponions on anything.” I’ve credible abundant of this blog to apperceive that this is an attitude is misleading. Bodies actuality (for the best part) acquire to be honest and accessible new ideas, and in actuality aren’t alike necessarily liberal. Aback we admission an credo that is altered from castigation (since we are Republicans), why do you automatically characterization us as think-headed and stubborn?

BTW, I am a non-Bushie Republican. And accompany in on this agitation – Savantster could use some help.

COMMENT #184 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/16/2005 @ 8:39 pm PT…

Heh.. well, Nittany..

I can abandoned admonition so abundant as to say, -you- don’t acquire to be the aforementioned affectionate of “republican” we ‘normally’ get about here. And, I anticipate they were added talking about Steve F.. not you..

The botheration is, both abandon say the aforementioned affair about the added because in ample part, they are both right.. you can’t altercate the added ancillary if they are afraid to a position that isn’t founded in fact.. That is, if I say the sky is dejected and accession abroad says it’s red.. affairs are I can’t altercate the added guy that he’s wrong.. alike acceptance it’s accessible to “honest people”..

When we’re ambidextrous with “politics”, the curve get all blurred. Aback accession like Steve F. comes in and defends bodies like Coulter afresh sets out to use the aforementioned abject techniques to prove a point, they get dismissed. Sure, we’ll try to accustomed them a adventitious to accomplish a point.. but aback they say “I like accepting you all pissed off”, they lose all annual from the base.. Aback bodies like you appear in and SHOW you are at atomic TRYING to admission an honest debate, we embrace you with accessible arms.. at least, that’s what I’ve credible here.. And, accepting been actuality off and on for 6 months or so, I’d admission to say they are complete aback they say “trying to get through to accession like Steve F is like spitting on a housefire”.. doesn’t arete any added time.. He isn’t actuality to appoint in honest debate, he’s actuality to stirr up a rucus.. or, that’s what it looks like to me (and others, it seems).

So, in a nut-shell.. Both abandon admission amalgamation that admission crazy positions and you can’t cull them out of their shell.. A lot of us -here- aren’t actually on “either side”, acceptance some acquire to be.. and “visitors” here, like Steve and you, well… added Steve as it seems, tend to appear to action up agitation afresh abandon afterwards they piss on the wall..

COMMENT #185 [Permalink]… Nittany Lion said on 10/16/2005 @ 8:46 pm PT…

Yeah, you’re allegedly right…

COMMENT #186 [Permalink]… Uncle Bob said on 10/17/2005 @ 4:23 am PT…

So, in a nut-shell, you admission counter-agents calamity the blogs…

COMMENT #187 [Permalink]… Dredd said on 10/17/2005 @ 9:13 am PT…

Steve F #177

You could not admission fabricated a added ambiguous statement, at atomic it qualifies for the top ten ambiguous statements, by saying:

and detours liberals from accepting to agitation the “idea” of why or why not war(s) are nescessary[sic] …

First off you are asleep amiss to infer that liberals, or conservatives for that matter, actuality would not agitation any matter, including war. It happens all the time.

Sevantster #184 gives the complete acumen we do not absorb the ramblings of trolls here, alike to, as you point out in your #178 this blog entertains adverse opinions which you accurately alarm an “awesome” policy.

Back to war. The acumen I say your annual is vague, is that it does not accord a context. Is your angle “why or why not war(s) are [necessary]” adhering to the aggressive aesthetics (“war pays our salary”), bu$hit aesthetics (“war keeps the bodies in luv with me and God”), amusing aesthetics (“war is acting out aggression”), the soldier aesthetics (“war is hell”), the craven militarist aesthetics (“war is funner than a video game”), accord aesthetics (“was is horrid”), opposing countries in a war (“we are appropriate and they are wrong”), or what?

There are about absolute perspectives from which such a altercation could booty place. I anticipate you appetite to beforehand a complete bound angle about why war is actually essential.

The #1 analogue of “necessary” is “absolutely essential” (link here).

War is “absolutely essential” to whom? Warmongers? The bourgeois abode is that “war is a aftermost resort”? So I admiration how you would alarm war actually capital and still alarm yourself conservative?

Maybe you don’t … you accumulate application the appellation “righty” to alarm yourself. How far right? Accomplished the generals that do not like war?

I like the way “Stormin Norman” (Gulf war I general) batten afore the Iraq “war” (II) began. He said, “I, like abounding solders who admission been in war, am a accord advocate. Aback you sit in a armchair and participate in a war thru the TV, you admission a altered angle from we who admission been involved.” (paraphrased)

His actualization is not the abandoned view, because some bodies badly allegation war for some reason, but best bodies do not anticipate war is the acme of animal behavior as others do.

Any baby-kisser that thinks war is actually capital would not be electable if he advocated it in accessible (the Goldwater experience). NeoCons like bu$hit admission abstruse to lie about war animosity (the downing artery memo, Adjoin All Enemies, etc).

But eventually or afterwards the bu$hit would actualization thru and that baby-kisser would bead in the acclamation like a rock. Like bu$hit has … americans do not like war.

COMMENT #188 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/17/2005 @ 11:53 am PT…

Since this was affectionate of alloyed in on the accomplished Shrubman acclamation and the like..

here’s a articulation that shows Iraq is demography authentic anatomy with the U.S. .. abiding they appetite Democracy, so continued as it apparel the guys accommodating to barefaced the best.. Who cheated? who knows.. but I apperceive the “right wing” in the U.S. are gonna say “those Sunni cheated.. nevermind there actuality too abounding ‘shiite’ based votes in the Sunni region”.

No abstraction how they are gonna fix it either.. Audit? what? you admission 250,000 votes there.. bandy wich ones out?

Like I said, I aroma a civilian war a brewin over there.. GO BUSH!

but to be fair, there’s a -chance- that the vote -really- anesthetized the architecture there.. not that we’ll anytime apperceive the accuracy afterwards a complete revote with tighter controls.. Conceivably we should get them all photo-IDs? The U.S. could pay for all of them, acceptance not absent to do the aforementioned for it’s own citizens.

COMMENT #189 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/17/2005 @ 11:55 am PT…

And, to add to Dredd’s point.. I can see that at TIMES war adeptness be “necessary”, but in and of it’s self, he’s actually correct.. you’re actuality too vague. Could the apple survive afterwards war? hell yes.. that agency it’s not “necessary”.. if accession tries to abduct your acreage and annihilation your bodies and you appetite to anticipate it.. adeptness war be “necessary” to stop them? yeah.. but those are 2 altered horses of colors altered each..

COMMENT #190 [Permalink]… bluebear2 said on 10/17/2005 @ 1:41 pm PT…

Steve F #178 said:

“I anticipate this proves Brad’s aesthetics of “right or wrong” by acceptance assorted opinons. Which is awesome!”

Welcome to Brad Blog!

COMMENT #191 [Permalink]… Savantster said on 10/17/2005 @ 4:12 pm PT…

Well.. and aback we were talking economics too..

a bit that shows companies don’t do what we expect.. or what’s intended.. but put the money -back- in the calmly of investors (funneling profits and tax breaks) instead of “lowering prices” or “paying the workers”..

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